Should everyone pay for highways? (Atlanta: how much, calculation, quality of life)

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

Neill has hit it on the head on the difference in this argument. Many ITPers come across (in this forum at least) as passing judgment on OTPers, making wide sweeping denouncements of their values and lifestyles. This is not replicated going the other way.

So what about all these posts saying "Until the city provides me with X, Y and Z in the form I prefer and at the price I wish to pay, intown living isn't justifiable."

As someone who has spent their life trying to carve out good living here in town, and seeing my kids and many of my friends do the same, that feels like a pretty unreasonable condemnation to me.

I'm not sweating it, of course, since it's up to everyone to arrange their priorities the way they like. But this snootiness certainly hasn't been a one way street.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by Economicsman

At the end of the day people with kids want safe areas, affordable homes, good public schools at all grade leves and decent homes. Intown can't seem to meet all those critera and it has been stated that many suburbanites would choose to stay Intown if it did.

You claim they exist all you want. The thing is there are threads of people wanting to stay intown but can't find areas with ALL the criteria I mentioned. All this arguing is useless unless those needs neeare met. People aren't gonna sacrifice their kids safety and education or thier disposable income for some urban idea.

I suspect there are actually plenty of areas ITP which are safe and which have schools which can meet the needs of anyone's children, but people in this forum are so helplessly fixated on test scores and various publications' "Best Of" lists that they're willing to completely discount any school which doesn't fit a certain list of specifically calculated criteria.

Many of the schools which are rejected in this manner would still be, in all likelihood, a perfectly good match for their children. Keep in mind that the teachers aren't the ones taking the tests.

Your kids are not the entire student population, people. Some students may well have issues on standardized tests and perhaps learning in general for various reasons. That doesn't mean the teachers in question can't provide your own kids (who are presumably without those issues) with an exemplary education. Sometimes it only takes one key teacher to make or break a student's career. Who's to say that some of those gifted teachers aren't to be found in ITP schools? I mean, we already know that Atlanta schools can deliver the goods to students of a white wealthy demographic, even when compared to elite schools in Cobb and elsewhere. What else do you need to know?

Some of you people floor me.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Sure seems like it to me. There's an almost constant drumbeat from suburbanites about how bad crime supposedly is intown, how awful the schools are, how crooked the politicians are, how expensive the housing is, how useless MARTA is, etc., etc., etc.

Many of those things are easily shown to be true by looking at home prices, property taxes, crime numbers, and other objective criteria. Rose colored glasses don't change the facts.

Criticism does flow in both directions, but the main difference I see is that most of the criticisms about ITP seem to be directed at qualities of the area itself (crime, costs, schools), while criticisms about OTP seem to be directly more at the qualities of the people living there (conservative, extravagant, wasteful). My perception, anyway.

The latter form of criticism gets a lot more personal then the former.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by rcsteiner

...while criticisms about OTP seem to be directly more at the qualities of the people living there (conservative, extravagant, wasteful). My perception, anyway.

The latter form of criticism gets a lot more personal then the former.

RC, I have never said anything remotely like that, and outside of a couple of yahoos on this forum I have never heard anybody else say such a thing.

You know, that's the nature of the intertubes. Anybody can pop off with whatever half-baked opinion they like. But that's okay. Those of us in the grown-up contingent are comfortable and confident enough with our own decisions that we don't let that kind of nonsense get to us.

For instance, I regularly read all these supposedly terrible things about intown living that would make me a complete idiot for living here. However, I know that they are mostly bogus so I don't sweat it.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by arjay57

RC, I have never said anything remotely like that, and outside of a couple of yahoos on this forum I have never heard anybody else say such a thing.

Most folks here (including you ) are fine. I've only seen a few, mostly as I say on the ITP side, but it only takes one or two posters in these threads to make an bad impression.

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by rcsteiner

Most folks here (including you ) are fine. I've only seen a few, mostly as I say on the ITP side, but it only takes one or two posters in these threads to make an bad impression.

Agreed. Arjay, you are definitely NOT in the crowd that puts on the "ITP is superior" air. I just don't see anyone saying OTP is superior like ITPers do. I see OTPers defending their turf because of attacks from some of those ITP. You are not one of those.

[tonygeorgia]

Yes since we all pay for schools

[cqholt]

Roads are part of the infrastructure, so we all must pay for them. More than just commuters use them, commerce moves goods by highways and freeways.

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

Agreed. Arjay, you are definitely NOT in the crowd that puts on the "ITP is superior" air. I just don't see anyone saying OTP is superior like ITPers do. I see OTPers defending their turf because of attacks from some of those ITP. You are not one of those.

Persecution complex? Really?

[arjay57]

I predict we'll see more toll roads if the TIA fails. Which is okay with me -- put the onus on the you-know-whatus of the people who use them.

That's really the only way to fund major highway improvements these days since the gas tax won't be changed.