If transportation vote fails, is there a plan B? (North Druid Hills: university, cost)

[JPD]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

You think $900 million investment up front along with the ongoing maintenance expenses (which MARTA already can't pay since they want $600 million for their deferred maintenance) to move 10,000 people daily is a big deal?

900 million to move 10,000 people per day...every day from now until forever...is a reasonable deal. It's not like it's 900 million per year, or even per ten years.

[cqholt]

You think $900 million investment up front along with the ongoing maintenance expenses (which MARTA already can't pay since they want $600 million for their deferred maintenance) to move 10,000 people daily is a big deal?

Whoa corndog, your math keeps going up. Its only $700 million for the Clifton Corridor, project TIA-RO-003.
You need to stop inflating the numbers to make your point look good.

[south-to-west]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Whoa corndog, your math keeps going up. Its only $700 million for the Clifton Corridor, project TIA-RO-003.
You need to stop inflating the numbers to make your point look good.

Thanks! Also, the estimated number of daily boardings is 17,500 not 10,000 as Corndog claims...

[cqholt]

Corndog, stop spreading your lies to prove your point.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by brownhornet

It'll be 2050 with 5 hour long traffic delays before anything serious is done about transportation here. And even then, their only answer will be to add 3 more lanes to existing highway. I don't think ATL will ever get ample public transportation, quite sad really.

You do realize Atlanta has the best rail system in the country other than Chicago, LA, San Francisco and the northeast? Its the bus service that's horrible.

Atlanta is also the least dense of any major metro area.

[cqholt]

I think Atlanta has LA beat on rail. We have 4 lines of a true subway system, while they have 1 HRT and 3 LRT. Also, they still operate on the honor system, since when is anyone in LA honorable?

[JPD]

Originally Posted by cqholt

I think Atlanta has LA beat on rail. We have 4 lines of a true subway system, while they have 1 HRT and 3 LRT. Also, they still operate on the honor system, since when is anyone in LA honorable?

Wait...what? Honor system? If true, that's just plain dumb.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

I agree to some point. However, spending $900 million or whatever to build the Clifton light rail line which in the next 20 years is projected by MARTA to add just 10,000 new transit riders is an awful ROI. If you said that number was significantly larger than that you might have a point. However, I don't think this expansion will do anything to shrink the gap in the fare return rate of just 32%. 68% of the cost of each ride is subsidized from outside sources, so adding new riders, just means that the amount of money going to subsidize the system increases.

There is nothing in the TSPLOST that will significantly increase ridership to close that gap and make MARTA march closer toward self sufficiency.

PS: If you look at the Texas cities, many of them had the foresight to invest in an outer beltway. Heck, Houston almost has a third beltway. The Northern Arc should've been built. People here want to talk up their transit investments (which are still small), you should rather look at their rapid investment in highways and limited access toll roads.

Atlanta expanded MARTA to the north a few miles in 2000. They just opened their 1st new freeway exit since 1994.

Houston's built a 6 mile rail line, has 3 other lines under construction and has built at least 4 brand new freeways/toll roads in that time period, not counting expanding at least 8 others during that time period.

Austin built their rail and has added at least 3 freeways/toll roads.

Dallas has built 72 miles of rail in the last 20 years, in addition to several new freeways/toll roads and expansions/extensions of others.

All 3 of those have done major improvements to their arterial streets. Not sure if Atlanta ITP has done any expansion of its arterial roads in the last 20 years except maybe Ivan Allen. It certainly doesn't appear like it.

Those cities do a realistic master plan and then figure out how to fund it. Atlanta figures out how to get money and then puts together a list of pet projects. Planning is done here by ARC people who think roads are bad.

People worry about Plan B. I worry about Plan A. If it passes and fails to put a dent in the problem (which it won't because its not about moving people), there will never be another shot. And all of these transit projects have no source of support after the 10 years are up.

[cqholt]

People worry about Plan B. I worry about Plan A. If it passes and fails to put a dent in the problem (which it won't because its not about moving people), there will never be another shot. And all of these transit projects have no source of support after the 10 years are up.

If they don't work, then the voters do not approve another Transportation Referendum and we enjoy what was built.
The Clifton Corridor and Atlanta BeltLine has a source of funding after 10 years, its called MARTA. Those projects will be placed under MARTA's operation. Clayton County buses and GRTA funding, I have no idea. Maybe by them Clayton County will pass a binding MARTA vote and join the system.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by south-to-west

Thanks! Also, the estimated number of daily boardings is 17,500 not 10,000 as Corndog claims...

The cost is $900 million. Maybe the TSPLOST allocation is $700 million.

I believe the 17,500 is all the way to Avondale. The part beyond Clairmont is NOT funded. So the Corndog is right on all counts.

It is so expensive as they have done some things to appease the LaVista homeowners, they have challenges at Lindberg with the existing tracks and there is a lot of elevation change.

I have a problem with it because:
It forces everyone to transfer at Lindberg (or Avondale if it goes that far) so that limits ridership.
Its slow being light rail.
It rides on those already congested streets in places, including on Clifton.

It will be $900 million that will make traffic worse.

Its a good project with the wrong technology. Spending the extra $400 million to make it heavy rail would allow people to use it without additional transfers and increase the ridership to around that 17,500 number just for Lindberg to Clifton. It would also avoid clogging congested streets. And it wouldn't require a different maintenance infrastructure.