If transportation vote fails, is there a plan B? (Atlanta: houses, contractors)

[tikigod311]

Originally Posted by cqholt

They may take away a lane from North Decatur and make exclusively LRT use.

Fine. But they are already building tunnels at N Decatur and Suburban plaza. Build an additional .3 miles of tunnel and you have a dedicated ROW.

They should be building this with the idea that in the future they can convert it to HRT.

Originally Posted by south-to-west

The $700 million portion ends at Emory/Rollins School of Public Health and will be separate grade right-of-way. The cheaper $400 million portion will run on surface streets and be completed at a much later date.

I dont see that on the MARTA plan above. It shows an elevated portion coming onto Clifton road and then street running until it rejoins the CSX ROW.

Is there a different plan I am not seeing.

Originally Posted by bu2

I've seen stats that 25-40% of ridership is lost with each transfer.
Its a time factor as well. Every transfer loses time. That means its less favorable vs. driving.
If we want mass transit to really work, we need to get discretionary users, not just people who are transit dependent and the few transit diehards.

I think this is a good argument. However, due to the Beltline joining in with MARTA at Lindbergh, this will already be an active transfer point.

Transfers are not something to brush off as a problem. Combine the heat and Atlanta's general dislike of public transportation, you don't want to add to folks excuses for not riding transit. A major (future) transfer spot like Lindbergh should be enclosed and have AC. I know, its not necessary, but we don't need to give people a reason not to ride.

[SWAMPBUCK62]

no plan B good, I truly hope it fails. It's just another tax that will never go away..

[tonygeorgia]

Originally Posted by SWAMPBUCK62

no plan B good, I truly hope it fails. It's just another tax that will never go away..

Should they stop taxing us for the school systems also?

[SWAMPBUCK62]

Originally Posted by tonygeorgia

Should they stop taxing us for the school systems also?

yes..... I have no children in school any longer.. well just one but he goes to private school ....The other 2 are in college...

[arjay57]

The AJC's more liberal commentator doesn't think there's much chance of a Plan B. I tend to agree with him this time.

A Plan B should TSPLOST fail? Realistically, I doubt it | Jay Bookman

[tikigod311]

Originally Posted by arjay57

The AJC's more liberal commentator doesn't think there's much chance of a Plan B. I tend to agree with him this time.

A Plan B should TSPLOST fail? Realistically, I doubt it | Jay Bookman

Meh, I think he is wrong.

The same political forces that produced a list that is too heavy on transit to some, and too light on transit to others, will still be in play come 2014, and at best will produce a list much like this one.

Im certainly no fan of politicians, but they are not this stupid!

Besides, let’s be honest: Most who oppose this T-SPLOST would also oppose any future tax increase for transportation.

There are a sizable amount of folks that would oppose any tax. However, if we were voting for a tax that actually had a plan that would reduce traffic, there would be enough people to overcome to no-tax crowd.

They have presented a plan that is a giant wish list of projects without an overall strategy. Just because people oppose this list of random projects does not mean that the majority doesn't want improvement in transportation.

Folks have got to stop confusing ALL opposition to the TSPLOST with a blanket anti-transit sentiment.

In the end, though, the failure will be our own. This will be the first time in the history of the Atlanta region that it has the chance to actually debate, vote and act as a region. Defeat would mean that we failed that test.

Well, it was a stupid experiment. You mix in rural conservative counties and ask them to volunteer for a tax to pay for transit in "the big city". Thats going to fail. Everytime. So, TEST FAILED. This is not a breakdown of unity in the metro area. It is the rejection of a ill conceived plan.

And if we prove to have no faith in our leaders or institutions, why should outsiders looking to invest time, energy and money have that faith either?

In other words, "If Georgians demand more than what is just offered to them by our politicians, the groups that created the TSPLOST will have to come up with better ideas." OOOH NOOO
How long has this guy lived in Georgia! I loathe the day the populace has faith in our leaders...

[cqholt]

Well, it was a stupid experiment. You mix in rural conservative counties and ask them to volunteer for a tax to pay for transit in "the big city". Thats going to fail. Everytime. So, TEST FAILED. This is not a breakdown of unity in the metro area. It is the rejection of a ill conceived plan.

Well you mix in liberal urbanites and ask them to pay for road expansion when those rural counties will get more money, listed projects and 15% local funds, from the TIA than they actually collect.

There are a sizable amount of folks that would oppose any tax. However, if we were voting for a tax that actually had a plan that would reduce traffic, there would be enough people to overcome to no-tax crowd.

That is just the anti-Transportation Referendum crowds opinion. We have no way of knowing that these projects will not reduce congestion. The Clifton Corridor rail project will instantly reduce congestion in that employment center, you can bet 100% on that! 285/20 and 285/400 interchange rework will reduce congestion at those chock points. The braided ramps at 285S to 85N will reduce merge delays and lower the congestion on not only 85N, but also 285S. So tell me again on congestion will not be reduced?

[tikigod311]

You are right CQ, I should rephrase that comment. I know there are projects on the list that will have an effect on congestion. What I am referring to is a lack of a comprehensive solution to transportation. The public was presented with a list of random projects. There is no strategy whatsoever. Sure some of the projects will reduce congestion, but they should be completed through the normal channels of funding, such as the gas tax.

I don't see a good return for billions of investment and I don't think the majority of taxpayers do either. If a strategy was developed that would move Atlanta for decades to come, I think people would be willing to make the sacrifice. I talk to a lot of people that are much more opposed than I, honestly I wont be upset much at all if it passes, and most understand that a significant investment in infrastructure is necessary. This was just a TERRIBLE SELL. I don't like it and don't want to waste a once in a lifetime opportunity on it.

If this passes, the lack of sizable reduction in traffic will not go unnoticed. Clearly Georgians don't like being taxed. So when it comes time for a real transportation initiative, the solutions that will make a real difference will be unlikely to pass.

[cqholt]

The cheapest and longest lasting solution is commuter rail system, but people are not willing to give up their cars. This list is transit for the urban core and road projects for the suburbs.

If this passes, the lack of sizable reduction in traffic will not go unnoticed

Good, then don not approve the next round, or maybe people will get involved with the meetings and hold their roundtable members to a higher standard.

[tikigod311]

Would love nothing more than to be involved in it. Wish I could catch the right ears and convince them to reduce the size of the region. That way it could much more of a focused effort.

Commuter rail is the solution, and I think it will work. But we definitely need the last mile connectivity provided by the belt line and Clifton corridor.

And it has to go fast. No better argument for commuter rail than when the express train from Kennesaw blasts by a jam on 75 St 90 MPH. That will get people out of their cars.