Mayor Reed Wants High Speed Rail to Savannah (Atlanta, Macon: credit, house)

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Somebody needs to put the Mayor in touch with gtcorndog.

Not sure if serious or if poking fun at me.



Seriously though, this is an awful idea. There is so much else that could be done to improve the infrastructure of the state that there is no need to invest in this corridor which is already well served by bus, car and plane. FOCUS ON THE AREAS OF NEED. The gas tax and subsequent infrastrucutre investment levels in this state are too low to go blow money on "nice to have projects."

I know the response will be "but its federal money and we can't spend it on anything but high speed rail." If that is the case, then don't take the money. The money isn't free. I'm paying for it and so are the 53% that pay federal income tax. This project isn't needed.

[bryantm3]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

This crap idea again?

I'm guessing Reed will have his hand out for federal scraps here shortly.

Given all of the pressing infrastructure needs of the state, why focus on this "nice to have" project that solves none of those needs. Foolish.

back on topic, the panama canal and the port of savannah are being modified to accept large cargo ships from china. if savannah becomes a major US port, having passenger rail to savannah would be an excellent idea to further connect atlanta to more jobs. it's a shame— 70 years ago it was nothing to get a train to macon, savannah, athens, or chattanooga. we've allowed our infrastructure to collapse. we do need regional rail, and badly. you do have a point about priorities, i'm not sure if savannah needs to be #1 on our list of transit projects, for example commuter rail to griffin, macon, athens, rome, gainesville, etc. probably needs to come first. but the reason i put the video above is that i haven't seen you come out in support of a single rail line the entire time you've been on this forum. you have a severe aversion to spending money on any passenger rail at all, yet you keep writing your posts as if you're trying to appear pragmatic and open to some rail projects. i'm not buying it. name a single rail project you would support. just one!

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by MattCW

The idea isn't crap, Georgia doesn't have good links between its and its neighboring population center. While I agree that the infrastructure is in a bad state of repair, some of the effects can be mitigated by giving people an alternative transportation system. Additionally, there aren't many programs at the federal level for securing funding for ongoing maintenance, like the FTA's New Starts Program.

How many people on a daily basis would ride this train? What is your projection?

Atlanta to Savannah counts. You're repeating the same thing that every rail detractor says and only pointing out the endpoints. A rail line serving Atlanta to Savannah would get at least Macon and probably Dublin, Metter and Statesboro (Georgia Southern University) depending on the route. In fact, the I-16 median is plenty wide enough to just lay the track down the middle abrogating the need for acquiring new right of way, or buying access on freight railroads.

Cost projection? Return on investment? Cost per rider?

Run your own projections and let me know how the look. I've already been over this in another thread and proved that this is beyond moronic even using unrealistically high ridership and unrealistically low project cost.

Aside from the fact that Megabus doesn't even serve Savannah, Greyhound takes 4:35 to go Atlanta-Atlanta Airport-Macon-Savannah. A high speed rail route, only going 125mph south of Macon, would take less than three hours. Running 220mph south of Macon drops the trip to 2:20 and these are WITH stopping at Dublin, Metter, and Statesboro.

So shaving 1.5 hours off a trip is worth a multi-billion investment?




Pull your head out of the sand and really think about the fiscal realities of this project.

[bryantm3]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

Reed should then join the Obama cabinet because there is no way there's gonna be an HSR between Atlanta and Savannah. The only possible routes are between close large population centers with a lot of passenger traffic between them. Atlanta is not going to enjoy the privilege of its own express train to the beach with federal dollars.

are you serious? i LITERALLY drew a straight line from atlanta to savannah and it doesn't pass through a single large population area. the only city it passes through is statesboro, only known to ardent allman brothers fans.

rail to savannah? - Google Maps

sheesh people, take a look at a map!

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

name a single rail project you would support. just one!

Show me a project that will have reasonable ridership numbers.

If Cobb, Gwwinnett and Clayton Counties ever approve the 1 cent MARTA sales tax, I'd be in favor of expanding MARTA heavy rail into those counties. I think a 7-10 mile extension up into Gwinnett County would be great for the region. I think a heavy rail extension up past Cumberland area and a few miles into Cobb would be great. I think extending 7-10 more miles south into Clayton County would make sense.

I would support those if my hunch that the ridership analysis would support my assumptions.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

Not sure if serious or if poking fun at me.

Oh, a little of both. I'm a rail fan but I appreciate the arguments you make.

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

How many people on a daily basis would ride this train? What is your projection?

At a guess? Along the entire route? Close to five-thousand people per day, or 1.5-2 million per year.

Cost projection? Return on investment? Cost per rider?

Run your own projections and let me know how the look. I've already been over this in another thread and proved that this is beyond moronic even using unrealistically high ridership and unrealistically low project cost.

Ok, I'll just do a comprehensive survey of every one living in the entire world who will use this rail line, then what they'll do that they wouldn't do if the rail line didn't exist which will tell us the complete economic impact of the rail line. Transit links cause far more economic benefit than can be measured from farebox recovery and ridership. You also have shops set up to accommodate the people going to and from the train. Then you have the people being paid to build the route. You've got businessmen who now have a good solid two hours opened up to work business and deals on the train, time lost when on a plane or driving.

So shaving 1.5 hours off a trip is worth a multi-billion investment?

Yes

Pull your head out of the sand and really think about the fiscal realities of this project.

I have, it's your turn.

[ATLTJL]

if savannah becomes a major US port, having passenger rail to savannah would be an excellent idea to further connect atlanta to more jobs.

That's crazy, the ride is too long for people to use for a daily commute to work, and anybody who is important enough to go for a few days and come back isn't going to ride a train when the alternative is to fly and be there in a fraction of the amount of time or drive and then have a car at his disposal once he arrives.

I have no idea who in the world would ride a train on this line.

All you have to do is drive down 16. It's pretty barren. If hardly anybody is even driving it, who in the world is going to ride a train on it?

I would think it makes more sense for rail to mirror very heavily used corridors like I-75, I-95, etc.

If Savannah becomes a large port, increasing freight rail capacity is going to be infinitely more important than any type of commuter rail.

For everybody who opposes rail no matter what, there is someone else who will support rail no matter what. The line has to make sense.

[westau]

Savannah is actually a place I would take a train too if it was quicker than driving and similar in cost. If it stops in downtown Savannah it is a place you could legitimately spend a weekend in without needing a car. With that said, I am sure the cost would be prohibitively high.

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

That's crazy, the ride is too long for people to use for a daily commute to work, and anybody who is important enough to go for a few days and come back isn't going to ride a train when the alternative is to fly and be there in a fraction of the amount of time *SNIP*

Flight time Hartsfield to Savannah is one hour which is gate-to-gate time. You'd need to arrive at least 30 minutes before your flight at ATL, then I estimate 10 minutes to the Savannah terminal door on arrival, then it's a 20 minute drive into downtown without traffic. So now we're at two hours terminal door to downtown savannah. Out of that time, a businessman probably wouldn't have any productivity time given how short the flight is, and they couldn't make cellphone calls while airborne either. Using the high-time of a 3 hour train trip, you can arrive 10 minutes before departure, then a terminal could be 5 minutes from downtown Savannah giving a door-to-downtown time of 3:15. Of that time, that businessman could be productive for basically three hours straight, can make calls, can bring anything they want onboard to drink (except maybe alcohol). For Atlanta's specific example, how many of our hypothetical businessmen are going to be on the southside near the airport? So they'd still have to get to the airport from wherever they are in Atlanta and statistically speaking, a downtown rail station is likely to be closer to them than the airport is.