09-27-2013, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
residinghere2007
Honestly, I don't see why so many focus primarily on SAT. Many studies have shown that it is not an end all predictor of college success. GPA is more of a predictor than SAT.
Also children of parents who make more money do better on SAT, this is a fact so if you want your kid to do well on it, it would be better just to make a higher than average income and send them to a good SAT Prep course.
I'm sure all of the schools above me are find schools, but really it is disheartening that so many people focus on these test as if they will be the primary factor in college admissions. Students have many strengths and weaknesses that cannot be measured by any standardized test and even though I am a proponent of being proficient in core subjects - especially math, reading and writing, I just do not get the obsession of people in regards to this test.
I took it in high school, along with ACT and did above average. And now-a-days most top colleges do not even put a lot of weight into it since the study by UC Berkley a few years ago that showed it had no correlation to college success. I have younger, high school aged family members, about 3 are looking at college right now and we have been to college fairs and one of them is interested in Ivy leagues. When we spoke to a Harvard admission rep, they said that they look for students who score in the top 10% of their class in regards to academic readiness and that SAT or ACT is looked at but that the top 10% are the students who have the work ethic to be successful in college. They have the drive to work hard and want to achieve over a longer period of time versus students who do test prep then cram for SAT or ACT.
Also essays are of primary importance and community service/activities. Basically - well rounded candidates and not test freaks (like myself I might add as I am a weirdo and actually love standardized test because I just find them fascinating and very easy to crack once you take a good prep course). So if GA students are scoring in the "average" range, I don't really see a problem with that. If they were severely below average, it would be an issue, but average is average and even though it took me a long time to come to this mindset (I am a test freak and was a crazy academic in school and obsessive about getting good grades - I was a TAG student though and most of my classmates were weirdos like me lol) about my own kids - that they don't have to be crazy academics like I was, that if they know the basic stuff and can get a "B" average, then it is okay.
This post a thousand times.
Awesome. Well said.
09-27-2013, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
residinghere2007
There was a study done by UC Berkeley, which I mentioned in my post, that showed that SAT is not a sole determinant in college success, which is what I am referencing - that SAT by itself is not a predictor of college success, you evidently agree with me so don't understand the eye rolls.
Also, many top schools are going the 10% route due to GPA combined with a decent SAT score is a good predictor of success in college.
The information you mentioned in your first paragraph is the reason that a lot of schools do not put SAT as the primary factor for admission. Different students in different districts can be taught at varying levels. I actually do believe SAT is a good reflection of what a student has learned thus far in his/her academic career, but IMO if a student scores low, that often means that their education from K-12 was lacking, not that they cannot learn or do well on a college level so it is a correlation moreso between the educational system in our state as a whole versus being proof that an individual student should not go to a particular college.
Smart kids in all schools do smart things. They are dedicated in learning and getting the most from their schools as they can. I don't see the difference in a smart kid in your school being better than a smart kid in a school that underperforms. If anything, due to the culture at the underperforming school, I would see that smart kid as "better" since they don't have the benefit of focusing primarily on academics. They have more distractions and stresses in their school environments. Many of them may not have educated parents who know the importance of doing well in school - yet the kid with the 4.5 at the "bad school" still strives for the 4.5 and to many college admissions counselors, that stands for something. You cannot teach a child focus, determination, drive, or character and smart kids in challenging environments probably have more of all of those than a similarly situated smart kid in a more academically rigorous environment.
09-27-2013, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
tandons2374
ok. From middle school onwards there is no class as such. All the students take different classes/ courses like regular or advanced placement in all the subjects and so is in high school So do they see how many students have taken that subject & calculate it for each subject. I would be thankful if you could explain it to me.
Usually class rank isn't as much of a factor until the high school level. I only know my son's because we have a very small school.
A lot of times on report cards in high school they will tell you your child's rank and percentage. They did at my high school in the 90s. The class rank is not about one or two classes, but about cumulative GPA. Schools then compare the individual student's GPA to others to determine their rank. You get the percentage by dividing that rank by the total number of students in her graduating class. If your daughter is in 7th grade, all the students in 7th grade at her school are her "graduating class."
The rank is based solely on cumulative GPA - meaning in high school the GPA for all years that you child is in high school, not the quarter/semester GPA. All the kids in your daughter's graduating class have a cumulative GPA. The children with the best cumulative GPAs are in the top of the rank. The kids with the worst are in the bottom. You can find the percentage that your child is in by dividing her rank by the total number of children in her graduating class.
Say her cumulative GPA is the 12th best out of 100 students that would be 12 (position)/100(total number of students) = 12%. That would be her rank and percentage.
More weight is given for AP courses when calculating GPAs. They usually are one point higher than a "regular" class. So if someone gets an A in AP English, they could exceed the 4.00 scale because an AP "A" counts at 5.00 points. AP has and still causes a lot of controversy being that many people do not like that it inflates the GPA and class rank of a student as many feel that AP courses at particular schools are not as rigorous as AP courses at other schools, which is true IMO. So one could do a whole thread about AP and the controversies people have about it.
09-27-2013, 10:07 AM
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Thank you residinghere2007 I appreciate your time. Got it now.
09-27-2013, 10:33 AM
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I dont think you can get a real accurate rating on SAT scores at times. Lets compare a N Dekalb School with a S Dekalb school. Redan High school area tends to have more trouble makers in it that than will do nothing with their life after they graduate vs Dunwoody or Chamblee area, simply based off location. So when these trouble makers in Redan take these tests and get a very low score as expected, it will make Redan look bad, even though their good kids scores are right on par with someone in N Dekalb. The same thing with City of Atlanta, if you have a higher percentage of kids that will do nothing after they graduate vs N Fulton, the N Fulton scores will generally be higher because they have less of those types of kids to bring their test scores down. So the end is the usual unfair comparison of N Dekalb scores better than S Dekalb, but not factoring in the less distractions in N Dekalb schools. Same comparison can be made nation wide just about anywhere.
09-27-2013, 10:44 AM
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Surprising results..
09-28-2013, 12:48 PM
Location: Atlanta, GA..don't go to GSU
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
SKB007
Surprising results..
How so? Was that sarcasm?
09-28-2013, 06:36 PM
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Very well said, residinghere. I heard a piece on NPR just a couple of days ago about the SAT fighting for survival.
Quote:
Bob Schaeffer, head of FairTest, a longtime opponent of standardized testing, says the College Board is intent on hitching the future of the SATs to the Common Core, which the board's Coleman helped write. It's a business decision to try to keep the SAT relevant, says Schaeffer.
"The number of SAT test takers actually declined from 2012-2013," Schaeffer says. "You need to do something to preserve your market share for financial survival."
More students take the ACT than the SAT, but the biggest reason the SAT is fighting for its survival, says Schaeffer, is that it's not the predictor of college success it claims to be.
"Look, the strongest correlation between SAT scores and virtually anything is family income: The higher your family income, the higher your scores. It's one of the major reasons so many campuses are populated by upper-income kids and not the needy kids who need the opportunity," Schaeffer says.
As for the College Board's push to help more minority kids have greater access to honors and Advanced Placement courses, Schaeffer says that, too, is a marketing ploy.
More...College Board 'Concerned' About Low SAT Scores : NPR
09-28-2013, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
arjay57
Very well said, residinghere. I heard a piece on NPR just a couple of days ago about the SAT fighting for survival.
That may be the case, but for now, the SAT (or ACT) is an important tool used in college evaluations.
There is simply no clear way for colleges to evaluate the transcripts of 10s of thousands of applicants (yes some schools get that many) and know for certain that the rigor of the courses are the same.
As some one who has been very active in DeKalb, for example, I can tell you that there are students coming out of Lakeside high school with a 3.0 average who are far better students and have worked harder than students with a 3.5 from say Towers or McNair. The SAT score can tell a picture.
What has changed, over the years, is this. When I applied to college back in the dark ages (30 years ago or so), a student with an "eh" GPA and good to great SAT/ACT scores could get into many competitive colleges. Not so much today. Colleges have figured out that an "eh" GPA and high test scores often indicates a slacker.
As to the point about Harvard, they may look at GPA first, but trust me they are still looking at test scores. From their own data, the middle 50 percent of applicant who were accepted and attending had scores in SAT reading between 690-790 and Math 700-800. 800 is a perfect score. This means that the upper 25 of accepted students had perfect scores. Writing had the same range as Reading. So, they can say it doesn't matter, but it does. (For the record, 91 percent had GPAs above 3.75. Smart kids.
A great tool to use when researching colleges is their own data -- simply google Common Data Set and the colleges name and you should get several years worth of data on any school. They are required to have the data.
Last edited by lastminutemom; 09-28-2013 at 08:35 PM ..
09-29-2013, 09:04 AM
Location: Decatur, GA
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Don't forget that Georgia pushes everyone to take the SAT while it's selective in the northern states. So they're only comparing their higher-end students anyways, while we compare everyone.
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Most Common Occupations - Healthcare support occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Protective service occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Fire fighting and prevention, and other protective service workers including supervisors (%)
Most Common Occupations - Law enforcement workers including supervisors (%)
Most Common Occupations - Food preparation and serving related occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Building and grounds cleaning and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Personal care and service occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Sales and office occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Sales and related occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Office and administrative support occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Natural resources, construction, and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Farming, fishing, and forestry occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Construction and extraction occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Installation, maintenance, and repair occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production, transportation, and material moving occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Transportation occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Material moving occupations (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - Correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)