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If you understood the history of Atlanta you would see that Atlanta's Northern suburbs were always white as South of Atlanta had more of the agricultural plantation society.
Anybody who lived here in the 80"s could tell you how racist Cobb and particularly Forsyth Counties wsre.Oprah even did a show about it.
That said I don't see how Atlanta is so segregated unless you mean by income which is true but I find that if you are black and you have money it's not an issue where you live like it is in the North.
In Chicago you have neighbors actually defined by ethnicity. Polish, Italian, etc.in Atlanta you know the largest concentration of Koreans live in the Northern Gwinnett area but so does a significant population of blacks, Hispanics and whites.
What city can you name with as many blacks as Atlanta that is more integrated?
None I can think of.So it makes since that blacks all over the metro as well as.in areas where they are the majority would exist.
Especially c on every level like class.Such as wealthy black neighborhoods.
Blacks come here from all over and because Atlanta does offer something where blacks can live without judgements many times they relocate in areas where everyone looks like them.
I have Li ed in every region of the US and can honestly say that I have encountered not so much racism but just ignorance because other races expect you to like or be a certain way based on their stereotype of how you should be.
I grew up in diverse environments as well as mostly white (I'm black) but now the neighborhood home I lived in while in high school was mostly white but now very diverse with Asians, Hispanics and white while the majority is now black.
I know of no place In America where a black majority does not scare people away.Many whites do not want to be the minority. Even in a middle class area.
Look at D.C. and Prince Georges County..Same thing with a county like Clayton.
The point was that there is segregation in Atlanta. The suburbs of Atlanta are pretty diverse, but the city in particular is very segregated. I don't even see why you would want to debate that being that the majority of larger cities are segregated. Everyone knows this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LovelySummer
Lol. Come on!! Lol. You know full well that you see black people all over Chicago. North side as well as South side. Where did you live where you went "days at a time" without seeing black people? Do tell because I was born and raised there and saw black people on the North side of the city all the time. I also know personally know of many that live on the North side. Are you talking about the actual city of Chicago or some remote faraway suburb? I cannot vouch for the far north suburbs as I did not live there and had no reason to leave the city to go there (I went to other suburbs where I had family and friends). Do tell where this place is that you describe bc honestly I think I've seen numerous posts by you about preschools in Atlanta that were just totally unbelievable and I'd like to know specifics about your claims.
Also, I am not completely sure but someone can help me. Doesn't Chicago have the largest number of African-American owned businesses in the country and an African-American middle class that rivals or exceeds Atlanta in wealth?
Sorry. I understand the body of professional African-Americans in Chicago is actually one of the largest in the country.
Sorry. I do not know where you and your friend lived but I saw and interacted with black people on the North side all the time. Daily. It was no big deal. Lol. And it was not shocking.... It is daily life in a city like all other cities. This is 2015 not 1615, 1715, 1815 or even 1915.
Please share what area of the city of Chicago you lived in and enlighten us as to how East Cobb is so much more integrated and racially diverse.
Eta: I cannot post it bc I don't know how but I just did a simple Google search and a page about "black-owned businesses" on an online publication named blackdemographics.com notes that Cook County and also City of Chicago have the largest number of those types of businesses behing LA and NY. Atlanta has a large percentage bc the city is much much smaller in number.
I agree with the above. The poster posting about Chicago must not have gone to many places there. I am not from there nor do I pretend to know the areas outside of where my in-laws and friends live, but I do have a cousin in law who lives on the northside and she has a lot of black neighbors. Both she and her husband are professors and PhDs. I also think that you may be speaking of northern suburbs. I have never been to the northern suburbs in Chicago but I know that they are not very diverse in regards to black residents.
Chicago does have a much larger population of black professionals than Atlanta as well. Practically everyone in my husband's family are well above middle income and I always joke with him when we lived in Atlanta the majority of his friends are what I called "loser friends" meaning they were not in a very solid financial place and many were what I would consider "sketchy" and I figured he just liked to hang out with these types of people for some reason. I was afraid to meet one of his Chicago friends and when one came to visit his mom who lives in metro Atlanta, I was shocked due to this guy being the director of a major non-profit organization in Chicago, was very highly educated and was just an all around great guy, very contradictory to his friends in Atlanta, and I know that that is on him, but his friends in Chicago, many of whom who I have met now, are all doing very well financially, many own their own businesses, they have higher level government and corporate careers, about 4 are firefighters also making over 6 figures who own real estate they rent. And all these people grew up in the Roseland/West Pullman area of Chicago's south side. They all like to party and hang out like my husband too. He said he couldn't find many (he had one) non-sketchy Atlanta cohorts who were gainfully employed who liked to do the sorts of things he likes to do on weekends.
Most of the successful blacks are coming from the Atlanta suburbs and not the city itself. I mean Atlanta is only 450k out of 5.6 million people.
Compare the percentages of the metro and its a different story. There's a reason blacks are leaving Chicago altogether and why Atlanta gained an enormous amount of blacks in 2 decades. It's not coincidence. If Chicago was so great to blacks why are they leaving? My parents left Southern California for the reason that they heard opportunity for blacks in Atlanta was great. Now my dad is making 250k a year.
One thing I'll always praise Atlanta for is its relatively successful black population compared to most other cities in this country. Many of the blacks here strive and thrive.
Atlanta is currently the only majority black city doing well in the entire country.
The ridiculousness posted in this forum is the reason that I stopped debating with these folks. Let them have it. Some of these folk actually believe that the ONLY US city that outmatches Atlanta is NYC. Oh, Atlanta doesn't outmatch NYC, YET! Engaging in fantasy is ego protective. Again, let them have it.
On the flip side. We could easily use their (some of the members here) logic and state that great cities are segregated. After all, according to Cwkimbro's research, regarding segregated cities, "Time and time again the highest indexes are New York, Millwuakee, Chicago, and Detroit." If Atlanta can be a great city because, like NYC, Atlanta has a huge rat population. I know that some of you recall what I'm talking about. Then, Chicago, the segregated metropolis that it is, is also great.
Please, I beg of you, don't call me out on this.
The problem with this response and your reference to me is these are real tangible facts calculated by the census bureau. I studied demography.
The issue in this case isn't that everything is a black and white ego issue of Atlanta vs every other city.
It is simply you must separate the issue from segregation from every other subject and analyze it separately from any other subject. This has nothing to do with the rat population or anyone desire to be like another city. This is just statistics about current segregation trends. I'm sorry you are incapable of separating such things.
It is the West Coast that is the least desegregated on neighborhood to neighborhood or block to block basis. It is the older built cities in the north that have maintained the most segregation. Chicago and NYC has always been at the top of that list. It is what it is and it is empirically observed.
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant131531
Most of the successful blacks are coming from the Atlanta suburbs and not the city itself. I mean Atlanta is only 450k out of 5.6 million people.
Compare the percentages of the metro and its a different story. There's a reason blacks are leaving Chicago altogether and why Atlanta gained an enormous amount of blacks in 2 decades. It's not coincidence. If Chicago was so great to blacks why are they leaving? My parents left Southern California for the reason that they heard opportunity for blacks in Atlanta was great. Now my dad is making 250k a year.
One thing I'll always praise Atlanta for is its relatively successful black population compared to most other cities in this country. Many of the blacks here strive and thrive.
Atlanta is currently the only majority black city doing well in the entire country.
It's Reverse Migration.... even by me in east central Pa they are leaving NYC Boroughs and Philly for small towns for LESS CRIME AND GANGS and better schools. Not just black families, but Latino and White families. Cheap old stock housing advertised on the internet and rents, also is a reason.
As for Chicago, the cheapest neighborhoods happen to be higher crime and inferior schools and high gang activity. So Chicago is experiencing this reverse migration of Blacks. There had been big drop in black school enrollment, shows that it is families leaving.
Also Chicago has TORE DOWN its notorious bad idea of 60s... HOUSING PROJECTS for the poor. What became high-rise ghettos. They replaced them with townhouses that house 10s of thousands less people now. The sunbelt of the south.... from where the original migration came to Chicago from. Is where some returned. Gentrification pretty strong in Chicago, is displacing poorer families too.
Also, I am not completely sure but someone can help me. Doesn't Chicago have the largest number of African-American owned businesses in the country and an African-American middle class that rivals or exceeds Atlanta in wealth?
Eta: I cannot post it bc I don't know how but I just did a simple Google search and a page about "black-owned businesses" on an online publication named blackdemographics.com notes that Cook County and also City of Chicago have the largest number of those types of businesses behing LA and NY. Atlanta has a large percentage bc the city is much much smaller in number.
Possibly inside the city proper. However, from a metro-wide context the answer is no. In the 2007 economic census the Atlanta MSA had 127,209 black owned firms with 5,765 firms that has paid employeess that are not owners. Chicago's MSA has 101,555 black owned firms with 3,654 firms having paid employees. Chicago is also a larger city.
The answer to wealth is also Blacks in Atlanta are wealthier. I got the chart from the census ACS of household income distributions for black individuals. This is with raw numbers, granted, but Chicago has more black individuals in the 3 lowest categories (below $10,000, 10,000-15,000, and 15,000-20,000), than Atlanta and Atlanta has more in every category higher than that. Now I did not take the time to analyze other cities. I won't claim Atlanta to be the top, but it a well known place to find success for a black person, but this is true for parts of the West Coast and DC too.
This difference also comes back to the issue of segregation in Atlanta and Chicago. Atlanta the desegregation carries over into more of the suburbs. I just looked at the values given off by census tracts for chicago and Atlanta. Atlanta has many more suburban census tracts where the percentage of black people is 5~20%. Still lower than the population percentage, but most tracts in Chicago in similar areas were 1~5% The drop off between majority black neighborhoods and ones that weren't were very pronounces, often separated by a single census tract or two. In the Atlanta MSA it phases down more.
Now Chicago did have an exception to this, which is the southern suburbs. This is where Atlanta differ's. Chicago's MSA has their equivalent to Clayton County, but not Rockdale, Gwinnett, West Cobb.
This is why the dissimilarity indexes are different for the regions.
Now I'm not trying to speak on behalf of anyone else's personal experiences or say that Chicago if devoid of black people or successful black people.
But I am trying to catch these other nuances that compare. This just happens to be one subject that Atlanta excels at.
The point was that there is segregation in Atlanta. The suburbs of Atlanta are pretty diverse, but the city in particular is very segregated. I don't even see why you would want to debate that being that the majority of larger cities are segregated. Everyone knows this.
I agree with the above. The poster posting about Chicago must not have gone to many places there. I am not from there nor do I pretend to know the areas outside of where my in-laws and friends live, but I do have a cousin in law who lives on the northside and she has a lot of black neighbors. Both she and her husband are professors and PhDs. I also think that you may be speaking of northern suburbs. I have never been to the northern suburbs in Chicago but I know that they are not very diverse in regards to black residents.
Chicago does have a much larger population of black professionals than Atlanta as well. Practically everyone in my husband's family are well above middle income and I always joke with him when we lived in Atlanta the majority of his friends are what I called "loser friends" meaning they were not in a very solid financial place and many were what I would consider "sketchy" and I figured he just liked to hang out with these types of people for some reason. I was afraid to meet one of his Chicago friends and when one came to visit his mom who lives in metro Atlanta, I was shocked due to this guy being the director of a major non-profit organization in Chicago, was very highly educated and was just an all around great guy, very contradictory to his friends in Atlanta, and I know that that is on him, but his friends in Chicago, many of whom who I have met now, are all doing very well financially, many own their own businesses, they have higher level government and corporate careers, about 4 are firefighters also making over 6 figures who own real estate they rent. And all these people grew up in the Roseland/West Pullman area of Chicago's south side. They all like to party and hang out like my husband too. He said he couldn't find many (he had one) non-sketchy Atlanta cohorts who were gainfully employed who liked to do the sorts of things he likes to do on weekends.
Yes I know people like your husband's friends too.Many of them came here from cities like Chicago, New York, Boston etc because they thought Atlanta would somehow change their for turns from the poverty or lower incomes they left.
This is the Atlanta problem for blacks.Atlanya gets the educated blacks from across the country but it also gets the "loser wanna bees".
You cannot ignore the fact that every major city in the Northeast and some in the Miidwest are loosing their black p populations even as the cities themselves are gaining populatoon.
How many predominantly black well to do neighborhoods can you count in Chicago?
Off the top of my head I can count at least 4 in the metro of area considered upper middle claas.
I have black friends and almost none of them live in predominantly black areas.Afew live in Cascade area but most live in Buckhead and Midtown.
Now it's true about VA -HI .it reminds me of Georgetown in D.C.Its very white but most areas of Midtown and.Buckhead have many blacks.
From Atlantic Station to Lenox Park , I have black friends.
When will the people here get that the suburbs are not Atlanta? Maybe because the city can't stand on it's own so they want to take credit for the goings on in separate municipalities that have their own governments and tax systems outside of Atlanta.
Either way, I find it bizarre that people try to credit Atlanta for things outside of it.
The problem with this response and your reference to me is these are real tangible facts calculated by the census bureau. I studied demography.
The issue in this case isn't that everything is a black and white ego issue of Atlanta vs every other city.
It is simply you must separate the issue from segregation from every other subject and analyze it separately from any other subject. This has nothing to do with the rat population or anyone desire to be like another city. This is just statistics about current segregation trends. I'm sorry you are incapable of separating such things.
It is the West Coast that is the least desegregated on neighborhood to neighborhood or block to block basis. It is the older built cities in the north that have maintained the most segregation. Chicago and NYC has always been at the top of that list. It is what it is and it is empirically observed.
When will the people here get that the suburbs are not Atlanta? Maybe because the city can't stand on it's own so they want to take credit for the goings on in separate municipalities that have their own governments and tax systems outside of Atlanta.
Either way, I find it bizarre that people try to credit Atlanta for things outside of it.
Not much different than someone from Alpharetta claiming they live in Atlanta.
no, I get it. It is very simple. You're trying to be cute and turn this into a larger issue of homerism and a bunch of people turning this into an ego battle and that a great city can supposedly only be from a number of things that relate to NYC, because a city is supposedly "the best" somehow.
Its simple... its cute...but it also adds little to the discussion.
The issue I have is places and cities are different and not always necessarily the best. However, there are a number of single subjects or metrics that make them different.
When someone starts discussing these details it gives us the opportunity to really directly compare single subjects. Sometimes it is difficult to reach past opinions that are more over the top and stick to the facts, but there is often a serious discussion mixed in to. At some point you have to decide if you just want to remove yourself from the discussion, ignore the more over the top things, debate the over the top things, or just debate the more serious points of a discussion. But if you add to the noise of distraction... that is on you
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