ATL has only 21st worst traffic in USA...LA first, Austin 4th (Atlanta: rental car, real estate)

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by bu2

Arterial roads are not freeways. Arterial roads are Peachtree, Piedmont, Briarcliff, etc.

There was an expert said Atlanta was 19th worst of the 20 largest metros (Boston maybe was worse?-He didn't say). And I've been in all of those metro areas. Atlanta is far worse than all but a couple.

You missed this: "Freeway equivalent miles includes freeway miles plus a conversion of arterial street (signalized street) miles at their capacity ratio relative to freeway lane miles."

Again. More roads don't solve traffic problems. Atlanta is a poster child of that failure.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by erick295

Evidently you haven't spent a lot of time on Peachtree.

You don't even need to try rush hour. Go at lunch time. That is, if you have a couple hours to spare!

[bu2]

Originally Posted by jsvh

You missed this: "Freeway equivalent miles includes freeway miles plus a conversion of arterial street (signalized street) miles at their capacity ratio relative to freeway lane miles."

Again. More roads don't solve traffic problems. Atlanta is a poster child of that failure.

No, Atlanta is a poster child of the failure to build a better road system. It has the best rail system outside of the northeast, San Francisco and Chicago. And it probably sprawls more than any other city.

[jsvh]

Don't like sitting in your car in traffic? Don't get in it in the first place. Live somewhere where you can bike / walk / take transit. It makes for a much more enjoyable lifestyle.

You don't like the lifestyle choice you made? Change it.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by bu2

No, Atlanta is a poster child of the failure to build a better road system. It has the best rail system outside of the northeast, San Francisco and Chicago. And it probably sprawls more than any other city.

Any examples of a major city that has built enough roads to solve traffic? Nope. Because they don't exist. More roads don't solve traffic.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Don't like sitting in your car in traffic? Don't get in it in the first place. Live somewhere where you can bike / walk / take transit. It makes for a much more enjoyable lifestyle.

You don't like the lifestyle choice you made? Change it.

Well then most would have to move outside the Atlanta area. Retail is very spread out so its not realistic for very many.

Now if you are single or a dink, in good health, well-to-do and can afford to live in a high rise or mid-rise in Buckhead near a grocery store it works.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Any examples of a major city that has built enough roads to solve traffic? Nope. Because they don't exist. More roads don't solve traffic.

You guys can go back and forth all you want, but you're both missing the mark and several key issues.

It is all about how we build/zone our city and placing the proper commute capacity between jobs and housing.

You could take your argument to the extreme and remove roads completely, but our economy would cease to exist.

They definitely work.

In our current layout we're somewhat stuck with needing to fix bottlenecks, because we can't rebuild housing for 4 million people overnight. Also the low-density housing of about 500,000 people are blocking adequate places to zone for the other 4 million to be able to live in a city with no freeways.

In the mean time we're stuck with traffic, but the more people we can get to access our business districts.... the more business we can attract, which means more wages, more money, higher property values for most people, etc...

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by bu2

Well then most would have to move outside the Atlanta area. Retail is very spread out so its not realistic for very many.

Now if you are single or a dink, in good health, well-to-do and can afford to live in a high rise or mid-rise in Buckhead near a grocery store it works.

So your suggesting we work on improving our car-free lifestyle options in Atlanta for those that want it? Good. I agree. That is the solution.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Any examples of a major city that has built enough roads to solve traffic? Nope. Because they don't exist. More roads don't solve traffic.

And doing nothing degrades the quality of life if the city continues to grow. Austin (#4 on the OP's list) adopted that approach from the early 70s until early 90s when it began to strangle on its traffic. Don't build it and they won't come. But they did anyways. And the city continued to spread out, mostly along the one major freeway, I-35. Now they realize is was a huge mistake and are desperately trying to catch up with a series of toll roads. And Austin is a much more liberal, green area than Atlanta.

[J2rescue]

Originally Posted by ElleKaye

Free flowing could only be considered typical if it was the normal commute flow. Free flowing is not typical here; congested is. How can you not understand that?

You are confusing yourself with semantics. The linked study clearly measures the difference between travel times during "normal" traffic flow (NOT-congested) and peak travel hours (congested). This has ZERO to do with a normal commute. In a 24 hour period, free-flowing traffic IS the norm with the roads being congested for specific periods of time.

Those delays are extrapolated out to monthly and yearly wasted hours by assuming workers are doing a "typical" commute: typical being using same route 5 days a week.