Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If you haven't heard of this in the past, this is really cool.
Quote:
Smyrna Mayor Max Bacon says his city wants to share the cost of an estimated $40 million rebuilding of the segment of Windy Hill Road from South Cobb Drive to Atlanta Road.Smyrna would pay $20 million, if the new SPLOST is approved, and the county would pay $18 million. The city has $2 million to use toward the project from the 2011 SPLOST.
Almost reminds me of the boulevards in Paris.
Will it get enough people to the businesses, or just shuttle people quickly through Smyrna to their homes in West Cobb and Paulding?
At least, I imagine it'll be awesome for walkability.
Quote:
Smyrna’s city administrator Eric Taylor said the proposal is similar to what is found in Washington, D.C.’s Dupont Circle. Middle lanes on Windy Hill would be built for westbound drivers headed to Interstate 75 to continue unimpeded. Each side of the express lanes would be bracketed by local roads, allowing for traffic to have access to local businesses.
Bob Ott: “It addresses both areas where you have people passing through an area, which has increased in traffic due to the Windy-Mac Extension, so you provide a quicker access for them to come through. But at the same time, you don’t destroy the character of a community by just kind of putting four lanes in each direction through a neighborhood,” Ott said. “You put the express lanes in the middle, and you keep the local character on the outside.”
I personally want to make sure it has bike lanes. Other than that, I think it's a good idea so long as people driving straight through are constantly confronted with the choice to go to the local street, so they see the shopping/business options that I hope evolve there from the pretty pitiful businesses there now. I especially hope that it causes 4-5 story type office and residential development w/ street level shopping along this major road that has been neglected by dense development because it's so far from the highway.
What do you think?
Last edited by netdragon; 06-23-2014 at 11:20 PM..
I personally want to make sure it has bike lanes. Other than that, I think it's a good idea so long as people driving straight through are constantly confronted with the choice to go to the local street, so they see the shopping/business options that I hope evolve there from the pretty pitiful businesses there now. I especially hope that it causes 4-5 story type office and residential development w/ street level shopping along this major road that has been neglected by dense development because it's so far from the highway.
What do you think?
This will kill any hope of active street life. It amazes me how some areas of the metro are focusing on complete streets and slowing traffic down, while others are still 'all about cars.' No pedestrian is going to want cross that intersection. For the price of sinking this roadway they could implement frequent transit service along the corridor.
This will kill any hope of active street life. It amazes me how some areas of the metro are focusing on complete streets and slowing traffic down, while others are still 'all about cars.' No pedestrian is going to want cross that intersection. For the price of sinking this roadway they could implement frequent transit service along the corridor.
I'm all for transit, however cars cannot be ignored on this route. This is the regional designated route to the highway for many regional agencies (see image below). Think of it as the Peachtree Industrial Rd and Buford of this area, combined, with no interstate to relieve traffic along its route. That's why the Windy-Mac connector was built. It is not a "street" :-) It is the major E-W route in the county, and really in the NW metro, and is going to permanently be the main artery. Smyrna isn't gonna get funding to turn this into a regular street, and Windy Hill highway is destroying the urban character of that part of Smyrna, whereas Smyrna could work towards complete streets and urban development in other areas. That's why the boulevard concept came about.
There will never be an E-W highway, so this is the closest there will ever be and the traffic will only increase, transit in Cobb or not. In fact, as transit-oriented development will likely be along this route, and Cobb Pkwy, the auto traffic will only get worse even if transit ridership is high - look at Brooklyn and Manhatten. As we speak, there's a DDI interchange going in which will increase traffic even more into Smyrna, and sometimes all the way to Windy Mac. That would kill local businesses along the stretched.
Please provide details on how this concept prevents complete streets. The problem Windy Hill faces right now is that local traffic is fighting regional traffic, and thus it's not helping economic development on the Smyrna portion. So you can make the local portion complete streets, can't you?
I like the idea of incorporating ROW for future LRT in the local portion (or perhaps LRT could just use the local portion lanes), which will add to having just bike lanes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt
It amazes me how some areas of the metro are focusing on complete streets and slowing traffic down, while others are still 'all about cars.'
That's not at all. The focus in Smyrna is largely complete streets. Look at Atlanta Rd and the new work being done on Concord Rd. However, the reality of Windy Hill was already given to you above. So tell me, how do you turn a highway into a complete street? It can't be done. The Boulevard concept is intentionally meant to patch this mess up as best as possible.
The cooridor that would receive the boulevard concept is circled in red on the map below:
Last edited by netdragon; 06-24-2014 at 11:38 AM..
I'm all for transit, however cars cannot be ignored on this route. This is the regional designated route to the highway for many regional agencies (see image below). Think of it as the Peachtree Industrial Rd and Buford of this area, combined, with no interstate to relieve traffic along its route. That's why the Windy-Mac connector was built. It is not a "street" :-) It is the major E-W route in the county, and really in the NW metro, and is going to permanently be the main artery. Smyrna isn't gonna get funding to turn this into a regular street, and Windy Hill highway is destroying the urban character of that part of Smyrna, whereas Smyrna could work towards complete streets and urban development in other areas. That's why the boulevard concept came about.
There will never be an E-W highway, so this is the closest there will ever be and the traffic will only increase, transit in Cobb or not. In fact, as transit-oriented development will likely be along this route, and Cobb Pkwy, the auto traffic will only get worse even if transit ridership is high - look at Brooklyn and Manhatten. As we speak, there's a DDI interchange going in which will increase traffic even more into Smyrna, and sometimes all the way to Windy Mac. That would kill local businesses along the stretched.
Please provide details on how this concept prevents complete streets. The problem Windy Hill faces right now is that local traffic is fighting regional traffic, and thus it's not helping economic development on the Smyrna portion. So you can make the local portion complete streets, can't you?
I like the idea of incorporating ROW for future LRT in the local portion (or perhaps LRT could just use the local portion lanes), which will add to having just bike lanes.
That's not at all. The focus in Smyrna is largely complete streets. Look at Atlanta Rd and the new work being done on Concord Rd. However, the reality of Windy Hill was already given to you above. So tell me, how do you turn a highway into a complete street? It can't be done. The Boulevard concept is intentionally meant to patch this mess up as best as possible.
The cooridor that would receive the boulevard concept is circled in red on the map below:
You make it a complete street, with all types of transportation; eg: pedestrians, bicycles, transit and cars. You do not cater to one type of transportation and slow traffic down. This plan looks to put cars first.
You make it a complete street, with all types of transportation; eg: pedestrians, bicycles, transit and cars. You do not cater to one type of transportation and slow traffic down. This plan looks to put cars first.
I disagree. I think that it's actually very pedestrian-focused, down to the detail. Look at how for crossing from one side to the other on the bridges, that the pedestrians use a wider promenade in the center, so that they don't get cut off by people doing U-turns. The way the road currently is puts cars first. Local pedestrians and bicyclists, and traffic have to fight with regional traffic, gridlock and poor walk-ability ensues. Taking away lanes is not an option because of Windy-Mac, because this is the main E-W route in the NW metro. The alternative boulevard design that has been proposed (see photo) had the through traffic in the center and immediately flanking that, pedestrian, bicycle and local traffic. That more typical design had a problem of through traffic still disrupting pedestrian flow from one side of the road to the other. This avoids all that by tunneling the through traffic to make the local experience better.
It essentially makes the local part basically the equivalent of a two-lane road with a large median in the center.
Manhatten, Paris and DC has some setups like this right in the center (like Park Avenue near Grand Central) and this works pretty well.
Last edited by netdragon; 06-24-2014 at 01:37 PM..
Not bad. Ideally the higher-speed roadway will be entirely capped and cars-only and leaving the rest of the area above to be pedestrian and bike dominated with a few local, low speed cars.
I like the European-style urban boulevard concept that the City of Smyrna is trying to pursue for Windy Hill Road between South Cobb Drive and Atlanta Road.
Though, instead of trying to get Cobb County to pay part of the cost of depressing express lanes and creating a little bit of a canyon-like effect through the middle of an European-style boulevard corridor, a better idea might be to use funding from a Value Capture taxing district and user fees (variable tolls on the express lanes) to tunnel the express lanes UNDER the local lanes between South Cobb Drive and Atlanta Road.
Tunneling the express lanes under the local lanes would allow the entire surface area of the project to be redeveloped into a much more pedestrian and transit-friendly corridor....That's instead of leaving the express lanes exposed in a depressed open-air canyon of sorts that may not necessarily be as inviting and as friendly to pedestrians as one might like.
With the segment of Windy Hill Road in question being but only a small section of the longer Windy Hill Road-Macland Road corridor which is a bi-county corridor that is used by tens-of-thousands of motorists commuting between Paulding County and I-75, the State of Georgia should most likely have a major role in coordinating the funding for this project.
The use of Windy Hill Road through the Smyrna area by tens-of-thousands of motorists commuting between Paulding County and I-75 on a daily basis is also a major reason why the entire Windy Hill Road-Macland Road corridor should be converted into a "managed arterial" with variable tolls on express lanes through 16 new very tightly-constricted grade-separated intersections at US 278/GA 6, Old GA 6 Merchants Drive, GA 120 Charles Hardy Parkway, GA 92 Hiram Acworth Road, Poplar Springs Road, Corner Road, Old Lost Mountain Road, GA 176 New Macland Road/Lost Mountain Road, Villa Rica Road, Barrett Parkway, Powder Springs Road, Callaway Road, GA 5 Austell Road, GA 280 South Cobb Drive, Atlanta Road/Dixie Ave, US 41 South Cobb Parkway.
The revenues from the variable tolls on the express lanes through the 16 new grade-separated intersections and the tunneled express lanes through Smyrna between South Cobb Drive and Atlanta Road would pay to complete the (currently-unfunded) widening of GA 360 Macland Road to a divided 4-lane road between GA 120 Charles Hardy Parkway and GA 176 New Macland Road/Lost Mountain Road.
The revenues from the variable tolls on the express lanes through the 16 new grade-separated intersections and the tunneled express lanes through Smyrna could also be used to upgrade and implement new premium bus transit service along the Windy-Mac corridor between Paulding County and the Cumberland area (with likely connections to future high-capacity transit stations at the CSX/W&A and US 41 Cobb Pkwy corridors) as well as expand the 4-lane corridor west to connect with US 278/GA 6 in the Dallas area.
Good ideas B2R. I agree express lanes would be the best way to fund this project. Have the drivers that will benefit from the faster grade separated lanes pay for them instead of taxpayers as a whole.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
