Don't Judge People By Color (Atlanta, Jackson: houses, movie theaters, schools)

[SoulTrip]

Originally Posted by robogeek

I'm not sure we are talking about the same Atlanta--just because Atlanta is not on the 'top ten' list does not mean it's not very segregated.

There was a study done where the population mappings of color were done in color. Visually this makes things much clearer.

The Racial Dot Map: One Dot Per Person for the Entire U.S.

This map is from 2010 and I'm not sure that reflects accurate data as the area I live in is shown to be predominately white and guess what, I live here, it is predominately black now.

[chuckshere]

Originally Posted by Tarzanman

I take your meaning, but I will stand by my statement, even if I have to amend it. Atlanta is #9 of the top 10 metropolitan areas in the USA and large cities have a reputation of being melting pots. Even though large cities pockets and areas with a large concentration of a given ethnicity/cultural group (Chinatown, etc), you do not have large, extensive swaths where diversity is basically absent.

This is very much the case in Atlanta in a way that Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, Dallas, etc aren't... and this reality is clearly visible on the racial dot map. Washington D.C. comes close, but that area is infamous for its economic, racial, and political depression and segregation.



I wouldn't call it strong at all. This is just for the CoA - Demographics of Atlanta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Out of about 26 different neighborhoods, only 5 of them are what i would consider very diverse (meaning that no one group comprises more than 75% of the population there.

Your original statement was "Atlanta is also more segregated than most large cities." I don't understand what your are standing by in that statement and what you are amending, when separate studies have analyzed these maps and listed many major cities as being more segregated than Atlanta. Large cities may have a certain "reputation," but when the maps are analyzed, they tell a different story. It's the difference between anecdote and statistical evidence. Please look again at the maps in the studies that list the top 10 most segregated cities and the top 25 most segregated cities. Of course, the Atlanta maps aren't there, because Atlanta isn't on either list.

[Tarzanman]

You should look at the racial dot link. The maps are much better than the maps on your link.

[chuckshere]

Originally Posted by Tarzanman

You should look at the racial dot link. The maps are much better than the maps on your link.

Here's a link to a statistical study from Brown University and Florida State University that's based on 2010 census data of the 50 metro areas with largest black populations.

http://www.s4.brown.edu/us2010/Data/Report/report2.pdf

Atlanta does come in at no. 24 here, but is less segregated than Detroit, Milwaukee, New York, Chicago, Boston, Los Angeles, Pittsburgh and Houston, among others.

Atlanta comes in at no. 15 in Hispanic-White segregation in cities with the largest Hispaic population, but is less segregated than Los Angeles, New York, Chicago and Boston, among others.

Atlanta comes in no. 9 in Asian-White segregation, but is less segregated than Los Angeles, New York, Houston, Boston and San Francisco, among others.

This is an academic study. It isn't anecdotal; it isn't looking at dots on a map.

The assertion that Atlanta is more segregated than most major cities is preposterous.

[1lifealex]

Here are the top 10 most segregrated large cities in the United States Top 10 Most Segregated Cities in the US - Atlanta Blackstar

[Tarzanman]

Originally Posted by chuckshere

Here's a link to a statistical study from Brown University and Florida State University that's based on 2010 census data of the 50 metro areas with largest black populations.

http://www.s4.brown.edu/us2010/Data/Report/report2.pdf

Atlanta does come in at no. 24 here, but is less segregated than Detroit, Milwaukee, New York, Chicago, Boston, Los Angeles, Pittsburgh and Houston, among others.

Atlanta comes in at no. 15 in Hispanic-White segregation in cities with the largest Hispaic population, but is less segregated than Los Angeles, New York, Chicago and Boston, among others.

Atlanta comes in no. 9 in Asian-White segregation, but is less segregated than Los Angeles, New York, Houston, Boston and San Francisco, among others.

This is an academic study. It isn't anecdotal; it isn't looking at dots on a map.

The assertion that Atlanta is more segregated than most major cities is preposterous.

I used to live in New York, and I've spent time there as recently as this past Christmas holiday. There is absolutely no way that Atlanta is less segregated than New York City, and any suggestion that it is reflects a completely flawed methodology and unfamiliarity, if not utter ignorance of the reality of life within both of these cities.

Nothing against the studies that you've linked to, but the raw data which is readily available and visible (its even color coded) on the racial dot map speaks in much larger volumes than the opined lists that you place complete faith in.

I do not consider a small Jewish neighborhood next to a small Indian neighborhood nestled among a larger hispanic neighborhood (i.e. block to block) to be highly segregated, but the studies in your list do. In the situation that I just described, all of these kids would still go to the same schools and the people living in these neighborhoods would still encounter one another when going shopping, or out to the movies, etc.

Functional segregation is the type that we have in the Atlanta metro area, where entire swaths (almost half, in some cases) of most of areas making up the metro exhibit very little diversification. This is certainly the case with south Atlanta and most of the north metro. In this scenario, the people living in these different areas have almost no reason to travel to the different areas and do not regularly interact. This is the primary reason how you end up with entire counties filled with failing schools, or entire populaces that feel politically alienated or marginalized (Milton Co, anyone?).

You would have to look pretty hard in NYC or LA to find a public school that did not exhibit a fair degree of diversification. This is certainly NOT the case here in Atlanta, which is abnormal as it is #9 among the largest metropolitan areas in the USA.

You can't see the forest for the trees. Allow me to suggest that you do some critical thinking instead of applying blind faith to a study that you might not completely grasp.

[chuckshere]

Originally Posted by Tarzanman

I used to live in New York, and I've spent time there as recently as this past Christmas holiday. There is absolutely no way that Atlanta is less segregated than New York City, and any suggestion that it is reflects a completely flawed methodology and unfamiliarity, if not utter ignorance of the reality of life within both of these cities.

Nothing against the studies that you've linked to, but the raw data which is readily available and visible (its even color coded) on the racial dot map speaks in much larger volumes than the opined lists that you place complete faith in.

I do not consider a small Jewish neighborhood next to a small Indian neighborhood nestled among a larger hispanic neighborhood (i.e. block to block) to be highly segregated, but the studies in your list do. In the situation that I just described, all of these kids would still go to the same schools and the people living in these neighborhoods would still encounter one another when going shopping, or out to the movies, etc.

Functional segregation is the type that we have in the Atlanta metro area, where entire swaths (almost half, in some cases) of most of areas making up the metro exhibit very little diversification. This is certainly the case with south Atlanta and most of the north metro. In this scenario, the people living in these different areas have almost no reason to travel to the different areas and do not regularly interact. This is the primary reason how you end up with entire counties filled with failing schools, or entire populaces that feel politically alienated or marginalized (Milton Co, anyone?).

You would have to look pretty hard in NYC or LA to find a public school that did not exhibit a fair degree of diversification. This is certainly NOT the case here in Atlanta, which is abnormal as it is #9 among the largest metropolitan areas in the USA.

You can't see the forest for the trees. Allow me to suggest that you do some critical thinking instead of applying blind faith to a study that you might not completely grasp.

I do think critically, which is why I put more credence in statistical studies that are published academically, than I do in anecdotal observations. That's the difference between science and pseudoscience. I studied statistics and social sciences at Emory, so I think your idea of what I can and can't grasp is unfounded, too.

[Tarzanman]

Originally Posted by chuckshere

I do think critically, which is why I put more credence in statistical studies that are published academically, than I do in anecdotal observations. That's the difference between science and pseudoscience. I studied statistics and social sciences at Emory, so I think your idea of what I can and can't grasp is unfounded, too.

Anecdotal, that's a laugh! Besides having lived in these cities, I happen to belong to an ethnic minority, so these "anecdotal observations" have been my reality day in and day out for almost 40 years.

However, if you don't want to take my years of experience living and interacting within in both of these cities then luckily for you, the data is right here. The Racial Dot Map: One Dot Per Person for the Entire U.S. . Hardly anecdotal.

You can wave as many liberal arts degrees from a not-quite-ivy-league private school at me as you want. This ramblin' wreck is less than impressed and puts more stock in hard data ( The Racial Dot Map: One Dot Per Person for the Entire U.S.) than peculiarly drawn conclusions using an undisclosed methodology.

Nuff said!

[chuckshere]

Originally Posted by Tarzanman

Anecdotal, that's a laugh! Besides having lived in these cities, I happen to belong to an ethnic minority, so these "anecdotal observations" have been my reality day in and day out for almost 40 years.

However, if you don't want to take my years of experience living and interacting within in both of these cities then luckily for you, the data is right here. The Racial Dot Map: One Dot Per Person for the Entire U.S. . Hardly anecdotal.

You can wave as many liberal arts degrees from a not-quite-ivy-league private school at me as you want. This ramblin' wreck is less than impressed and puts more stock in hard data ( The Racial Dot Map: One Dot Per Person for the Entire U.S.) than peculiarly drawn conclusions using an undisclosed methodology.

Nuff said!

I think I made the case that your statement that Atlanta is more segregated than most major cities isn't factual.

[Tarzanman]

Originally Posted by chuckshere

I think I made the case that your statement that Atlanta is more segregated than most major cities isn't factual.

No, not really. All you have demonstrated is that my statement isn't supported by the academic studies you linked to.

Here is the definition of factual. Pay close attention to the part I have bolded for you.

fac·tu·al: ˈfak(t)SH(əw)əl/: adjective; concerned with what is actually the case rather than interpretations of or reactions to it.

First-hand and experience plus raw data trump academic studies from the perspective of cold, hard facts.