Malls Washed Up? Not Quite Yet: Ideas for Metro Atlanta (Winder: real estate, employment)

[gvlscrkeva]

Northlake's overall problem is moreso Simon Inc. Simon for whatever reason dont seem to think this property is worth keeping and once they start backing off, they back off (see Gwinnett Place Mall). The times Ive visited Atlanta and have taken a trip to Northlake, it seems to do fairly well. Imho, all it needs is some TLC and Northlake can be a viable retailing outlet.

My only gripe with that overall location is the Macy's store there. Ive been to alot of rundown stores but that one is just embarrassing and there is no reason as to why that store is in the shape that it is in and why Macy's Inc doesnt invest in that store. You can tell by looking at the overall visuals (displays, presentations, etc) * those in retail know what Im in reference too* Another thing that strikes me odd about that store is the mechandising mix. Typically with the MyMacys initiative, you can tell what type of demographic a particular store is catering too but this store seems to be a "general" no bells and whistles kinda place, so that lets me know that they dont know who to reach out too as far as clientele is concerned. Also when and if ever was that store renovated? And granted the third level of that store has been repurposed for office space, still when a store shrinks on availible sq footage for selling, thats not a good sign either.

I think it will take all the anchor stores and Simon to come together and create a campaign to get the neighbor dollars back into that place.

[Craziaskowboi]

Didn't Atlanta have the most overbuilt commercial real estate market in the United States when the economy collapsed in 2008? That would explain all the half-empty new retail buildings I saw for years. I remember a new strip mall being built right off GA 316 near Winder back in 2007, and the place was half-empty until a year or two ago. I think there might still be a storefront or two that have never been used there.

As for the malls, the reason why Atlanta has a lot of dying malls these days is because of leapfrog development, which directly contributed to the overbuilt commercial real estate market. I remember going Christmas shopping at Gwinnett Place Mall back in 1996, and the place was hopping. The Mall of Georgia is nice, but it was the beginning of the end of Gwinnett Place Mall. Then there's Sugarloaf Mills (née Discover mills), which always seemed kind of pointless to me. There was never a need for three malls along 10 miles of I-85, especially since the I-85 corridor isn't filthy rich like the GA 400 corridor. That's the only reason why Lenox Square, Perimeter Mall and Northpoint Mall are all doing well despite their proximity, because the aggregate income is so high in those areas that it'd take a lot more to saturate the market.

The dying malls should either be razed or adapted into "ethnic" malls. I think Gwinnett Place Mall could make a good Asian mall, given the large Asian population in Gwinnett County. Otherwise, tear them down or downscale them to "power centers" until there's some equilibrium in the market. And stop with the leapfrog development. There has to be a limit to how far out the urbanized area of Atlanta spreads anyway.

I don't believe that the concept of the shopping mall is dying, though. First of all, people gotta meet somewhere, especially in the suburbs. Second of all, online shopping can only complement mall shopping, not replace it. Sometimes you need to try clothes on before you buy them, or get advice from a human being about which product to buy. Online shopping is far too impersonal. Third of all, if malls were going out of style, then all malls would have declining profits, even the upscale ones. There's no evidence of that.

[Morgan98]

I just spent the past eight years living about two miles from Northlake Mall (Basically at the corner of Lawrenceville and Cooledge). I agree with the previous poster who said that Macy's is in a time warp and has not been renovated in years. I do not think there was a specific clientele it catered too and it definitely did not carry anything too high end or anything too in style. I used to tell my husband I was going to the "frumpy, little old lady Macy's" (no offense meant to anyone). It was fine if you needed to buy a bottle of cologne for a gift or a standard item, but not if you were looking for a nice selection of something (shoes and purses were lame, for example).

In my opinion, it is a great location and could be so much more. It is not half empty by any means, but more and more no name stores were not moving in. For those above that talk about a solid middle or upper middle class demographic in the general area of the mall, all I can say is that the stores the malls attracted were most definitely not that. For goodness sakes, the Old Navy even had to close as it was too high end for the mall.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by Morgan98

I just spent the past eight years living about two miles from Northlake Mall (Basically at the corner of Lawrenceville and Cooledge). I agree with the previous poster who said that Macy's is in a time warp and has not been renovated in years. I do not think there was a specific clientele it catered too and it definitely did not carry anything too high end or anything too in style. I used to tell my husband I was going to the "frumpy, little old lady Macy's" (no offense meant to anyone). It was fine if you needed to buy a bottle of cologne for a gift or a standard item, but not if you were looking for a nice selection of something (shoes and purses were lame, for example).

In my opinion, it is a great location and could be so much more. It is not half empty by any means, but more and more no name stores were not moving in. For those above that talk about a solid middle or upper middle class demographic in the general area of the mall, all I can say is that the stores the malls attracted were most definitely not that. For goodness sakes, the Old Navy even had to close as it was too high end for the mall.

My wife will more likely go to Northpoint than North DeKalb or Northlake which are the two malls closest to us. More often, she will go to Lennox or Phipps. We shop a lot at the Northlake strip centers on LaVista, but not frequently in the mall. She talks about how that Macy's at Northlake was really nice back in the 80s (not sure if it was a Rich's or a Macy's back then). North DeKalb and Northlake just don't get that demographic anymore.

But people's shopping habits have changed. They more likely take targeted trips and more likely want to just park in front to be quicker. Department stores, the anchors of the mall, are dying. The very high end and Walmart are doing well, but not much in between. Macy's has bought everyone in the moderately high upper end and are struggling. I would be surprised if JC Penney and Sear's didn't follow WT Grant, Woolworth and Montgomery Ward's into oblivion in the next 20-30 years.

[JPD]

Originally Posted by bu2

My wife will more likely go to Northpoint than North DeKalb or Northlake which are the two malls closest to us. More often, she will go to Lennox or Phipps. We shop a lot at the Northlake strip centers on LaVista, but not frequently in the mall. She talks about how that Macy's at Northlake was really nice back in the 80s (not sure if it was a Rich's or a Macy's back then).

Lenox and Phipps, like Northlake, are owned by Simon Malls. Simon knows people living near Northlake will travel to Lenox or Phipps, and this is why they don't make investments into Northlake. There's no good reason to compete against yourself.

The Northlake Macy's was Davison's in the '80s.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by JPD

Lenox and Phipps, like Northlake, are owned by Simon Malls. Simon knows people living near Northlake will travel to Lenox or Phipps, and this is why they don't make investments into Northlake. There's no good reason to compete against yourself.

The Northlake Macy's was Davison's in the '80s.

That's the issue, Simon owns them all and would rather invest more money in their upscale malls that have region impact.

[gvlscrkeva]

Simon is heavily investing in Lenox, Phipps, Sugarloaf Mills, and Mall of Georgia.

[DJDeadParrot]

Originally Posted by Tryska

Interesting that he didn't touch the subject of getting rid of the Mall Building. I mean - isn't the street level space at Atlantic Station essentially a big old mall? I think the land use for malls could be rethought and rebuilt to make the land more useful than a big box with a bunch of little boxes in it, surrounded by a sea of parking. Especially in milder weather areas like Atlanta.

Well, the author kind of did; in the last couple of paragraphs, he seemed to identify what we know as lifestyle centers as the future of malls. I suppose that'll come down to a semantic argument, or something along the lines of a lifestyle center being a roofless mall...?

[Tryska]

Originally Posted by DJDeadParrot

Well, the author kind of did; in the last couple of paragraphs, he seemed to identify what we know as lifestyle centers as the future of malls. I suppose that'll come down to a semantic argument, or something along the lines of a lifestyle center being a roofless mall...?

You're right! I totally skimmed right over that paragraph. Thanks for pointing it out.

[Clayton white guy]

I was at Northlake Easter shopping last April. The mall was not VACANT! (For a peek on what a VACANT mall looks like, go a few miles farther up 285, turn onto 85, north, go several miles, get off at the Pleasant Hill Road exit, turn left and make a right. Go into any mall entrance at Gwinnett Place, look around, THAT is a vacant mall. ANY other mall in Metro Atlanta positively teems with commerce by comparison: North Dekalb, Northlake, South Dekalb, Greenbriar, Mall West End, even the mush derided Southlake near me in Morrow) Now, perhaps the poster meant that Northlake, North Dekalb, or another mall from the above list is lacking the stores that he or she prefers, that is an entirely different argument than stating a shopping center that is over 90% leased is empty. The Davison's/ Macy's/Rich's/Rich's-Macy's/ back to Macy's at Northlake is not/ has not ever been the premier store in any chain occupying that building despite the overall affluence of the surrounding community for what ever reason. Myself and many other family and friends in the area find The North Dekalb Macy's (Rich's) to be a treasure trove of retail virtue compared to Northlake Macy's (Davison's) not compared to larger stores at Lenox Square (Rich's old flagship store) or Perimeter (always Rich's "second" store in the Atlanta area). Perhaps proximity to Perimeter and Lenox/ Phipps has been the "problem" with Northlake marketing for decades. Now whether newer Stonecrest having the same anchors as Northlake Mall may be their problem for drawing from further east and south (South Gwinnett, Southeast Dekalb, Rockdale, and Newton Counties) may be a point; I do feel that having Perimeter as a cut off a couple exits up 285 negatively impacts their trade area to the north and west. I also must point out that some one said that "Lenox Square/ Phipps Plaza/ Perimeter Mall/ North Point Mall all coexist happily in the Ga 400 corridor. This is untrue. The three malls battle it out for dominance and North Point usually comes out on the bottom. North Point IS a nice mall, but it is also the most middle class of the three. Lenox Square/ Phipps Plaza has obviously won because they have several upscale stores that the other two do not, especially in anchors (Sak's, Neiman Marcus, Bloomingdale's, and even a much derided but still successful Belk flagship store for all of us peasants LOL) Perimeter comes in second because they have a Nordstrom like Phipps and a Van Maur (a nice store that reminds me of a midwestern Parisian) like North Point. Perhaps Northlake should take a page out of the North Point playbook and be the VERY best middle class mall in the northeastern suburbs. The Penny's, Sear's, and Khoel's are a good first step (although they could be remodeled and upgraded to represent the very best those mid range chains have to offer) and the Macy's need to be raised at least to the same level of North Dekalb, Southlake, North Point, or Mall of Georgia (I have never been to Stonecrest Macy's, so I am uncertain of their merchandise mix) Then, Northlake can make it by being DIFFERENT! Maybe even put a Costco in the parking lot. My point is Northlake is nice enough, but it could be so much more. Families do like a mid range merchandising mix; luxury is over represented in the near northeast side!