Malls Washed Up? Not Quite Yet: Ideas for Metro Atlanta (Newnan: sales, lease)

[aries4118]

Malls Washed Up? Not Quite Yet: Ideas for Metro Atlanta...

Malls Washed Up? Not Quite Yet | Newgeography.com



Enjoy!

[Saintmarks]

Great read. The La Gran Plaza in Fort Worth truly is an amazing success. It was a couple of miles from the Seminary in SW Fort Worth that originally brought me to Texas in the 80s. At that time was really down and out... Belvedere Plaza/Avondale Mall/Cobb Centre Mall level of former 60s retail glory. Now it is a thriving, colorful place.

[bryantm3]

i agree with his assessment about online retail; it really hasn't surpassed brick-and-morter retail and i don't think it ever really will; however, i don't really agree with his assessment about malls. malls like greenbriar and the mall at west end seem to be doing fine despite being in what he might call a less than desirable area. i really think he is looking at the wrong correlation with successful malls.

it has to do with location, but it doesn't have to do with how rich people in the area are; it has to do with the number of jobs and residences located nearby. successful malls are located in areas that have a critical mass of both, which translates to a large degree of economic investment in an area. i don't think a mall located in a sparsely populated but high-income area would succeed, which is why we don't see them in places like that.

the thing is that people don't have the time to drive 10 miles to a mall anymore. in the days before the internet, a lot of people would simply go to the mall because they had nothing better to do with their time; now that people don't go to stroll around a mall anymore, developers are going to have to start thinking differently about where they place expensive developments like malls; they need to locate where potential customers are, rather than expecting customers to come to them.

[Clayton white guy]

The Mall West End is not dead ala Gwinnett Place, but it definitely lacks the department store anchors (Rich's (Macy's) and Burlington Coat Factory that Greenbriar has held onto since the West End Sear's store closed. Is I am not mistaken The Mall West End still has a vacant grocery anchor, too (unless that has been filled recently) What I am saying is, "yes" to urban Greenbriar vibrancy and "fence sitter" to The Mall West End vibrancy. Old Columbia (Avondale) Mall/ Belvedere Plaza and Cobb Center not withstanding Atlanta has had a MUCH better track record on aging inner suburb malls than many other Metros (Birmingham Century Plaza, Augusta Regency Square, etc., etc) North Dekalb, South Dekalb, Greenbriar, and even Southlake (more suburban little newer) still have active anchors and are mostly leased. I am uncertain about what happened with Shannon Mall, perhaps a perfect storm (built too soon, too far out, too much competition from Anshey Park in Newnan to the south, Fayette Pavillion to the east, Arbor Place to the west/northwest, and Camp Creek Market place to the north) Who knows. I do agree that Malls aren't dead.

[bu2]

North DeKalb is dying and they are looking at tearing it down and redeveloping. I like going to that Macy's because its always empty (but sometimes stock is low too). Northlake is dying. That Sear's is always pretty empty. Either mall you could play a baseball game with little fear of hitting any customers with a hit ball. What's left at Greenbriar and South DeKalb?

Kotkin mentions Sugar Land Mall, but being in Houston, he should know that almost all the malls there are struggling. There are 4 doing well (out of about 20-at least at one time there were 20)-Sugar Land and the Woodlands which are in far out suburbs, the Galleria, which is the high end close in mall (think about Lennox and Phipps being one mall) and Memorial City, which has adopted a kind of faux main street storefront look. All 4 are near a lot of upper middle income households.

Which ones here are doing well? Perimeter Mall near a lot of upper middle income households and like Houston's Galleria near a lot of office development is doing fine. Phipps seems to be struggling, although Lennox still has lots of traffic (near a lot of upper middle income households and office development). The outlet mall off 400 does pretty well. Northpoint and Cumberland Galleria have not been especially busy when I've been there.

Strolling around malls is just not something people do as much as they did. They tend to want to get in and get out. That's why power centers thrive and why a number of malls have been converted into that (Edgewood is a proto-typical power center). I think that's the plan for North DeKalb. I can think of at least 3 in Houston that have had that type of conversion.

[Mutiny77]

Northpoint and Cumberland are doing fine; Cumberland has especially had a notable turnaround, and adding the adjoining retail/restaurants has helped.

[Clayton white guy]

Granted I don't go there everyday, but the North Dekalb Macy's (legacy Rich's) is ALWAYS hopping when I go there, the mall itself IS a little quieter. Northlake Mall has always seemed decently vibrant to me (few vacant store fronts/ steady stream of shoppers) They have the best J.C. Penny's in Metro Atlanta in my opinion. Sear's is struggling everywhere due to mismanagement, but Northlake Sear's does have an "edge" in the Metro due to its Lands End department in my opinion. The Macy's at Northlake (legacy Davison's) has never had the vibrancy of their North Dekalb store, but it never has seemed as nice and complete as North Dekalb (furniture/ fuller home store) to me. Since they closed the Southlake's full line J.C. Penny's {No the "baby" Penny's in McDonough and Fayetteville don't count anymore than the "baby" Belks in those same cities compare to Belk Phipps Plaza (Legacy Parisian)} my family does make it to Northlake a couple times a year since it is one of the few places that has Sear's, Macy's, Penny's, and Khoal's in the same mall. As I have state earlier in this post, a trip to Northlake usually also results in a trip to nearby North Dekalb on the way home to go to the nicer (in my opinion) Rich's (Macy's) there. The offerings at Macy's (Rich's) Southlake, by the way are similar to North Dekalb from my observations, and MUCH better than Northlake (despite the higher incomes of the Northlake area in comparison to the Southlake area; income levels of North Dekalb/ Northlake are probably a wash since they are adjacent communities.) Now if they would make Northlake Mall Macy's more like North Dekalb, you would probably have the PERFECT middle income mall (every place can not be and does not need to be Lenox Square/ Phipps Plaza) Also, on the Phipps Plaza front, no Phipps is not usually over crowded, but with the price points of many of the specialty shops there coupled with prices at Sak's, they do not need the masses to have quite high annual sales volume.

[jero23]

Originally Posted by bu2

North DeKalb is dying and they are looking at tearing it down and redeveloping. I like going to that Macy's because its always empty (but sometimes stock is low too). Northlake is dying. That Sear's is always pretty empty. Either mall you could play a baseball game with little fear of hitting any customers with a hit ball. What's left at Greenbriar and South DeKalb?

Kotkin mentions Sugar Land Mall, but being in Houston, he should know that almost all the malls there are struggling. There are 4 doing well (out of about 20-at least at one time there were 20)-Sugar Land and the Woodlands which are in far out suburbs, the Galleria, which is the high end close in mall (think about Lennox and Phipps being one mall) and Memorial City, which has adopted a kind of faux main street storefront look. All 4 are near a lot of upper middle income households.

Which ones here are doing well? Perimeter Mall near a lot of upper middle income households and like Houston's Galleria near a lot of office development is doing fine. Phipps seems to be struggling, although Lennox still has lots of traffic (near a lot of upper middle income households and office development). The outlet mall off 400 does pretty well. Northpoint and Cumberland Galleria have not been especially busy when I've been there.

Strolling around malls is just not something people do as much as they did. They tend to want to get in and get out. That's why power centers thrive and why a number of malls have been converted into that (Edgewood is a proto-typical power center). I think that's the plan for North DeKalb. I can think of at least 3 in Houston that have had that type of conversion.

Quite a bit is going on at Greenbriar, South Dekalb, and West End malls. All of those malls have over an 85% occupancy rate and Greenbriar just replaced Conway with another store within weeks of its closure. Greenbriar's only problem is finding adequate tenants for its outparcels that formerly were home to the Magic Johnson movie theater.

[atltechdude]

Online shopping has its place for many things, but personally I would never buy clothes or shoes online.

[Tryska]

Interesting that he didn't touch the subject of getting rid of the Mall Building. I mean - isn't the street level space at Atlantic Station essentially a big old mall? I think the land use for malls could be rethought and rebuilt to make the land more useful than a big box with a bunch of little boxes in it, surrounded by a sea of parking. Especially in milder weather areas like Atlanta.