Malls Washed Up? Not Quite Yet: Ideas for Metro Atlanta (Lawrenceville: low income, 2015)

[evannole]

ClaytonWhiteGuy, have you tried Dillard's? If you're looking for clearance sales, I can't envision any better ones. I've gotten $1600 Hickey-Freeman suits there for $250, when they are doing an additional 65% off already reduced merchandise. And the quality of their merchandise runs circles around that at Belk...

[Clayton white guy]

Dillard's has 66 and 1/3 off sale as the end of each season and on certain days of the year (Fourth of July, New Year's Day, etc) As for their merchandise, very similar to Belk in my opinion and of course it is VERY based upon location. Atlantic Station Dillard's equals Phipps Plaza Belk; Newnan Dillard's blows Newnan Belk away! Both chains have horrible "after thought" home stores in my opinion, though. Really Belk and Dillard's may have been competing against each other too much, I feel like their home assortments are too much alike! This is the category where Macy's AND Penny's takes them both to the wood shed in my opinion.

[Chevalier de Saint-George]

I know Southlake Mall is trash now. It's useless.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by JPD

Your statement implies that the market area defines how successful a mall will be. That statement doesn't square with Northlake or even North Dekalb, both of which are mostly upper middle class areas that have dumps for malls.

My statement doesn't imply, it says it.

And it is true.

If you think the market area for Northlake and North Dekalb is evenly upper middle class, then your incorrect.

Both malls are in extremely close proximity together and the market area for a mall is a large area.

One mall was opened in 1965 and the second in 1971.

Back then Dekalb was the premiere suburb. Much of Stone Mountain, Clarkston, South Decatur, and central Dekalb were nice places to live. Most apartments in the area at the time were younger people getting a start on life as opposed to families, which brings more expendable income per capita. Memorial Drive was an up and coming area.

Lastly, you need to know your demographics and that isn't just income. In the wealthier areas, which is largely what your limiting your thoughts on as the market area, you have more empty nesters and aging households than the area use to have. With fewer kids around, older age, and higher medical costs, less money is spent at retail areas.

I really enjoyed Clayton's description of things. One thing he didn't go out of his way to discuss is department stores will emphasize who they cater to given the area demographics. North Dekalb Mall's Macys was a really large important store for Rich's. It maintained that generation of shopper. Today it is a go to location for older shoppers, especially older females and it carries a larger stock of brands for that demographic. Sadly, like my great aunt who would shop their religiously and recently passed on, that generation is starting to fade away.

This demographic mix is why the malls have survived, but there has been no reason for them to put much, if any, money back into the malls. Large parts of their markets have dwindled, some areas by large margins. It is also why it out-survived other malls of its era, like Cobb Center and Columbia. It is doing far better than that of South Dekalb Mall.


But anyways... One last thing to spot out. We were originally discussing Lenox and Perimeter malls. North Dekalb and Northlake simply do not have the money living nearby that those malls have. That is why they thrive.

[JPD]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

My statement doesn't imply, it says it.

And it is true.

If you think the market area for Northlake and North Dekalb is evenly upper middle class, then your incorrect.

Both malls are in extremely close proximity together and the market area for a mall is a large area.

One mall was opened in 1965 and the second in 1971.

Back then Dekalb was the premiere suburb. Much of Stone Mountain, Clarkston, South Decatur, and central Dekalb were nice places to live. Most apartments in the area at the time were younger people getting a start on life as opposed to families, which brings more expendable income per capita. Memorial Drive was an up and coming area.

Lastly, you need to know your demographics and that isn't just income. In the wealthier areas, which is largely what your limiting your thoughts on as the market area, you have more empty nesters and aging households than the area use to have. With fewer kids around, older age, and higher medical costs, less money is spent at retail areas.

I really enjoyed Clayton's description of things. One thing he didn't go out of his way to discuss is department stores will emphasize who they cater to given the area demographics. North Dekalb Mall's Macys was a really large important store for Rich's. It maintained that generation of shopper. Today it is a go to location for older shoppers, especially older females and it carries a larger stock of brands for that demographic. Sadly, like my great aunt who would shop their religiously and recently passed on, that generation is starting to fade away.

This demographic mix is why the malls have survived, but there has been no reason for them to put much, if any, money back into the malls. Large parts of their markets have dwindled, some areas by large margins. It is also why it out-survived other malls of its era, like Cobb Center and Columbia. It is doing far better than that of South Dekalb Mall.


But anyways... One last thing to spot out. We were originally discussing Lenox and Perimeter malls. North Dekalb and Northlake simply do not have the money living nearby that those malls have. That is why they thrive.

Now you're putting words in my mouth.

My only point, and if you can't grasp it then I'm sorry for you:

An area's retail amenities should be a reflection of the area's income demographics. You claim they are. They are in Buckhead, but they aren't in the areas near Northlake and North DeKalb. That means you're half right, at most.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by JPD

Now you're putting words in my mouth.

My only point, and if you can't grasp it then I'm sorry for you:

An area's retail amenities should be a reflection of the area's income demographics. You claim they are. They are in Buckhead, but they aren't in the areas near Northlake and North DeKalb. That means you're half right, at most.

There are a lot of lower income apartments. Look at the school demographics in the area. The schools just to the southeast are some of the lowest income in the area-Clarkston HS, McClendon ES, Avondale ES. And many of the neighborhoods that were high upper middle class in the 80s are low upper middle or middle-middle now. Only Decatur has gone up. And as was pointed out, the area has aged, meaning less expenditures in retail.

The malls do reflect who shops there now. And its not the people who shop at a Bloomingdales.

I would guess if you took the demographics of the people who shop on LaVista in the various strip centers between North DeKalb and Northlake, it would be higher income levels than the people who shop at the two malls.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by JPD

Now you're putting words in my mouth.

My only point, and if you can't grasp it then I'm sorry for you:

An area's retail amenities should be a reflection of the area's income demographics. You claim they are. They are in Buckhead, but they aren't in the areas near Northlake and North DeKalb. That means you're half right, at most.

I did no such thing and I believe your confused to my points.

You're not reading the market areas and the demographics correctly.

[JPD]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

I did no such thing and I believe your confused to my points.

You're not reading the market areas and the demographics correctly.

You said that I said it was "evenly" upper middle class. I said "mostly". There's a significant distinction there.

[JPD]

Originally Posted by bu2

There are a lot of lower income apartments. Look at the school demographics in the area. The schools just to the southeast are some of the lowest income in the area-Clarkston HS, McClendon ES, Avondale ES. And many of the neighborhoods that were high upper middle class in the 80s are low upper middle or middle-middle now. Only Decatur has gone up. And as was pointed out, the area has aged, meaning less expenditures in retail.

The malls do reflect who shops there now. And its not the people who shop at a Bloomingdales.

I would guess if you took the demographics of the people who shop on LaVista in the various strip centers between North DeKalb and Northlake, it would be higher income levels than the people who shop at the two malls.

You're ignoring Oak Grove, Evansdale/Embry Hills, Livsey, Briarlake, Sagamore, Northcrest, Henderson/Midvale, and other areas that are mostly upper middle class and teaming with kids. Decatur is definitely not the only area that has gone up.

You're also ignoring the most important factor, which is that Simon Malls is imposing a low end experience with Northlake Mall in an area that is not low end.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by JPD

You said that I said it was "evenly" upper middle class. I said "mostly". There's a significant distinction there.

dear Lord...

Still refer to my comment. You're wrong about the market area.