MARTA to make an $8 billion pitch to change the face of Atlanta (Roswell: sale, scooters)

[bu2]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

Damn, it broke. I'll repost it in a bit.

I think you need about a 100 inch screen to see that! You weren't kidding about it being big.

[bu2]

Clifton Corridor's 3 year old cost estimates are $132 million a mile for light rail over an 8.79 mile stretch.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by bu2

Undeveloped land-look at MARTA's own studies. Almost nobody rides between Northpoint and the last stop in Alpharetta according to their projections. That's why they have been talking about TODs. Currently those stops are a waste of money.

As for the cost, based on the cost of the non grade separated line, you wouldn't even get 19 miles. And grade separated would cost more. See the article below:

Gattis: MetroRail - the good, the bad and the ugly - Houston Chronicle

The Ugly

Final cost numbers are $823 million for the 6.6-mile Southeast Purple line and $587 million for the 3.3-mile East Green line, for a staggering total of $1.4 billion dollars. To work that out on a per-mile basis, it has to be noted that both lines overlap about a mile downtown, so really only 8.9 miles of new track were created (not 9.9), which works out to a head-spinning $158 million per mile. Ouch. As nice as the lines are, those are hard numbers for a taxpayer to stomach. They also make talk of substantially expanding the rail network, especially to the airports, financially unrealistic.

Overall, this money could have been better spent on other transit projects, like relieving growing traffic congestion with a more extensive park-and-ride HOT/HOV lane network with better express commuter service to more job centers from more neighborhoods - or at least a nice crosstown Universities line to connect the west and east sides of town (now indefinitely delayed due to fiscal constraints). These new lines are unlikely to generate nearly the ridership of the original Main Street line. But there's no going back in time, so let's hope these lines can be made as successful as possible to get a return-on-taxpayer investment - especially when it comes to neighborhood investments and redevelopment.

Those are some good points about the cost of building grade-separated high-capacity passenger rail lines and about the need to have TOD's generate revenues to pay the cost of constructing, operating and maintaining high-capacity passenger rail lines.

My biggest concern about the proposed expansion of the MARTA high-capacity rail network is that both the current and proposed stretches of high-capacity rail lines as well as the existing network as a whole does not and is not proposed to generate the amount of money from TOD's that will need to be generated to make an expanded rail network financially viable.

It is an excellent thing that MARTA has moved in the direction of developing its stations to be Transit-Oriented Developments that can generate revenues for operating expenses. But that vision of generating operating revenue from TOD's at existing stations does not seem to go far enough to help generate the money that will be needed for the large-scale expansions of the rail network that both the business community and the commuting public seems to be increasingly seeking.

As has been acknowledged many times, the current 1% sales tax just does not and will not generate enough money to pay for the expansions of the rail transit network that everyone seems to be desiring, even with a third county (Clayton County) now collecting the tax.

Even the proposed increase in the sales tax to 1.5% that is being kicked around does not seem to be enough to adequately fund a large-scale transit expansion as the extra 0.5% seems to only provide half the amount that will be needed....The other half would have to come from the federal government in an increasingly volatile political environment where even funding just for maintenance of the existing road network has been extremely difficult to come by.

Instead of attempting to push through a controversial tax increase in a highly tax-averse environment and then counting on (or hoping) a volatile federal government to provide the rest of the funding for the proposed rail network expansion, the approach that should probably be undertaken to obtain the funding that is needed for the proposed rail transit network expansion should be to take a line like the MARTA Red Line and build it as one huge P3 (Public-Private Partnership) commercial real estate development/re-development project that generates cash for the MARTA system.

In addition to extending the tracks of the MARTA Red Line from their current northern terminus at North Springs north along GA 400 to a future terminus at Windward Parkway, MARTA should partner with private commercial real estate developers and existing commercial property owners to generate operating revenue for the system by redeveloping the existing Buckhead MARTA Station, Phipps Plaza, Lenox Square Mall, Medical Center MARTA Station, Dunwoody MARTA Station/Perimeter Mall, Sandy Springs MARTA Station/Perimeter Pointe Shopping Center and North Point Mall properties and future stations along the extended MARTA Red Line into mixed-use Transit Oriented Developments that generate large (obscene?) amounts of cash for the entire system.

In addition to the aggressive sales of large and small private sponsorships and a multi-tiered inflation-indexed distance-based fare structure (of between $0.10-0.45 in 2016 dollars), a large major urban transit system like MARTA should be looking to eventually generate most (if not virtually all) of its cash from large-scale P3's (Public-Private Partnerships) and both large-scale and small-scale mixed-use TOD's (Transit-Oriented Developments) at stations and along its multimodal transit lines NOT extremely limited sales tax revenues and wishes for hard to come by federal aid.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

Here's the ART map that you requested primaltech:

WARNING: BIG IN FULL VIEW

Now it looks like a world class transit system.
One feedback, the station-connections get confusing and I think riders would find it hard to figure it out, without spending 10 minutes looking at the station-connections key.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Now it looks like a world class transit system.
One feedback, the station-connections get confusing and I think riders would find it hard to figure it out, without spending 10 minutes looking at the station-connections key.

I was a bit worried about that. Any suggestions?

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

Here's the ART map that you requested primaltech:

WARNING: BIG IN FULL VIEW

Damn, son! Very nice.

Suggestion: Include the #15 bus down Candler Road in South DeKalb. Currently it runs on just 15-minute headways during the day, which is almost as frequent as the trains.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

I was a bit worried about that. Any suggestions?

I would model it off the London Tude's map. It has a lot of connections and the transfers are simplified. Maybe use MTA's style? Where the streetcar and ART lines cross, make it a transfer point because it will happen. I would say make smaller circles for the streetcar and ART stops, use the large circles for existing rail and Clifton Corridor.
Also, on a personal note, please remove the parking for Clifton @ Memorial on ART 21.

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

I was a bit worried about that. Any suggestions?

Have all the colored ART lines run directly into the larger train station dots, so that it's easier to see which ones they connect with and stop at. Think as if they were train lines. So completely get rid of those short black lines you have on the stations.

And like on the 110, the pink line should go from Beverly St, to Arts Center Station, to 13th st. Instead of a straight line from Beverly to 13th. Kind of confusing. Unless, you want to make the 110 just run in a straight line down Peachtree without turning, in which case it would not show a connection to Arts Center or Midtown or the other stations, just proximity to it. Maybe use a broken line to show a nearby walking connection.

Also, add the streetcar stations in there too, and have the east side Beltline streetcar run up to Lindbergh.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by primaltech

Have all the colored ART lines run directly into the larger train station dots, so that it's easier to see which ones they connect with and stop at. Think as if they were train lines. So completely get rid of those short black lines you have on the stations.

And like on the 110, the pink line should go from Beverly St, to Arts Center Station, to 13th st. Instead of a straight line from Beverly to 13th. Kind of confusing. Unless, you want to make the 110 just run in a straight line down Peachtree without turning, in which case it would not show a connection to Arts Center or Midtown or the other stations, just proximity to it. Maybe use a broken line to show a nearby walking connection.

Also, add the streetcar stations in there too, and have the east side Beltline streetcar run up to Lindbergh.

I have to disagree with the 2nd paragraph. The system map does not need that kind of detail. Have the 110 ART run directly to Arts Center.
I honestly do not think MARTA would ever consider an ART line on Peachtree south of Arts Center, as that segment is better for local routes that stop frequently, if not why not just take the train?

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by cqholt

I have to disagree with the 2nd paragraph. The system map does not need that kind of detail. Have the 110 ART run directly to Arts Center.
I honestly do not think MARTA would ever consider an ART line on Peachtree south of Arts Center, as that segment is better for local routes that stop frequently, if not why not just take the train?

For one because 13th @ Peachtree and 5th @ Peachtree are a pretty far walk from the train. The ART allows for intermediate bus stations halfway between the train stations, such as at Baker St.

Also if you live in Brookwood or Garden Hills, and your job is somewhere in Midtown or Downtown, at Colony Square or somewhere along the Peachtree corridor, you shouldn't need to connect or transfer anywhere, or need to access the train. Should be one-seat ride.