Braves' Bridge Chances Dim (Atlanta: calculation, lawsuit, shop)

[chiatldal]

Originally Posted by Mishap

They are building decks. The plans call for 6,000 spaces mostly in decks onsite w/ the assumption (which has been proven wrong) that nearby businesses would welcome the stadium traffic to use their lots. There was also the unaccounted for 1,000 ft long double decker bridge that was to haul people from Galleria.

They have 2 choices...either build bigger decks or buy more land. The 3rd option is to buy out the buildings nearby but that doesn't seem to tenable either if they're too broke to build a bridge.

Based on their argument for leaving Turner Field, they were short 5,000 spaces (mostly covered by private lots nearby). Their new stadium is short even further on parking and there aren't any private lots in walking distance (yet). Using this metric, they need ~5,300 more spaces to match the target for Turner Field. They need 1,120 just to match Turner Field's pathetic capacity.

So based on a $15k buildout cost per space (for decks):

Just to match Turner Field:
1,120 * $15,000 = $16.8M

To hit their goal parking:
5,300 * $15,000 = $79.5M

So they're woefully short of parking. If they just level the entire lot and go all parking, they might get close to 9,000 spaces which is still less than they need officially and contradict any multi-use plans. That bridge they were out begging the state for was their hail mary to solve a very big problem they have on their hands.

My argument is that upping the parking onsite would be the death knell of any multi-use space and the ability for Tim Lee to deliver on his promise of a year round retail/entertainment mecca. The fact that it'll more resemble Arlington's parking lot Great Plains is based on its appearance and outside of any concerted plan.

http://www.carlwalker.com/wp-content...etter-2014.pdf
Are the Braves Making a Big Mistake Deserting Turner Field? | Bleacher Report

The Cumberland CID which is made of business leaders in the community help lure the Brave there..... So the red statement is wrong with in itself

CID the business leaders is fully embracing The idea of both The stadium and mix use development. it's literally updated in the plans and they're boasting the rendering.
The Cumberland CID - Community Improvement District

Business leaders just don't like like the parking plan they're not rejecting the idea of The stadium and mix use development they literally pro stadium and mix use development. This just means the develop has to change parking plans if there's a parking deck plan already than higher is like the answer.




This is really more a Atlanta intown vs Cobb County type thing. When the Braves announces they was moving out the CoA posters made mockery of it like the Braves where moving to a different metro and state. Metro Atlanta is very balkanized which is very unhealthy for the region. As part of the same Metropolitan yall suppose root for that area no different then the city. It's important That Cumberland and other edge city in metro Atlanta do grow and become more urban it's part of larger ARC 2040.

In other metropolitans outside development whether stadiums, mix use developments is not a big deal. And generally successful. But it's an big deal right here because Atlanta is balkanize. And yall are pessimistic toward urban development in the suburbs.

The success of the mix use development has nothing to do with whether it's next to the stadium. It's completely depend on whether Cumberland has demand for more retail and office space. So you have to be pessimistic that Cumberland has no demand for more retail and office space. Which goes back to my point yall are pessimistic toward urban development in the suburbs. Atlanta is balkanize. Yall just don't want the Baves their, and just rooting against the situation.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by chiatldal

The success of the mix use development has nothing to do with whether it's next to the stadium. It's completely depend on whether Cumberland has demand for more retail and office space. So you have to be pessimistic that Cumberland has no demand for more retail and office space.

The mixed use development has everything to do with it being next to the stadium. There is demand for retail and office in Cobb. But the demand for stadium parking will now be driving up the price of land in Cumberland while simultaneously making the area less appealing and thus that demand will shift elsewhere where they can find a better price and/or better location.

Originally Posted by chiatldal

Which goes back to my point yall are pessimistic toward urban development in the suburbs. Atlanta is balkanize.

Sandy Springs, Dunwoody and now even Chamblee and Doraville are eating Cobb's lunch.

You can try to spin this as a "balkanization" narrative. But it is not. No where does anti-Atlanta like Cobb.

[evannole]

So the latest narrative from those who wish this project to fail is that parking will suddenly become the highest and best use of land in the area and will thereby bring it down. This is absolutely preposterous. Is parking going to be an issue? Undoubtedly, and they're going to have to find solutions. But by this logic, Costco would elect to bulldoze their exceptionally busy store at Cumberland Mall because parking would provide them with a higher profit and/or margin. Give me a break. Same is true of most businesses around here. Certainly if you are sitting on a vacant lot or abandoned building in this neck of the woods, turning it into a parking lot may be an attractive option versus doing nothing. However, when you factor in opportunity cost, whether for an existing or potential business, parking is not often going to come out on top.

The reason that parking has proliferated around Turner Field is that there's been virtually no demand for commercial or residential development in that area for 50 years or more. The same cannot be said for Cumberland. Not even close.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by evannole

The reason that parking has proliferated around Turner Field is that there's been virtually no demand for commercial or residential development in that area for 50 years or more. The same cannot be said for Cumberland. Not even close.

Give Cumberland 50 years (or even 15 for that matter)

Are you trying to prove my point? Summerhill: Before stadiums it was thriving. Now that the stadiums are leaving it is in line for a huge amount of development that will likely eclipse the Braves-mixed use. Cumberland on the other hand is seeing mediocre development this cycle and is getting overtaken by Sandy Springs, Dunwoody, and even Chamblee / Doraville now.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by evannole

As to your comments about Sandy Springs and Dunwoody, yes, they are certainly growing faster than Cumberland if you discount the stadium and mixed use, but all indications are that Suntrust Park and its associated development will be enormous

What is your criteria for Cumberland is having more development than Perimeter if you include the stadium mixed use?

Edit: to be clear, I am talking about active developments going on right now. Not future potential for an area. Cobb is lagging behind in this cycle.

[jsvh]

Braves Stadium Relocation Shaping Up to Be a Disaster | Streetsblog USA

[Pemgin]

The best part of that story is Bob Ott suggesting 285 can be reconstructed to go under Cobb Parkway.

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by Pemgin

The best part of that story is Bob Ott suggesting 285 can be reconstructed to go under Cobb Parkway.

HAHAHA I saw that. Yeah, good luck with that, Ott. GADOT probably has no desire to even consider funding such a thing.

BTW, the pedestrian sidewalk on Cobb Pkwy. under 285 is just awful. That whole intersection is designed for cars only, period. There is no way in hell that that narrow sidewalk could handle even a couple thousand Braves fans on gameday. And that's to say nothing of the harrowing intersections with the I-285 onramps and offramps.

In other words, they really do need to build some sort of bridge, IMO.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.8844...7i13312!8i6656

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

HAHAHA I saw that. Yeah, good luck with that, Ott. GADOT probably has no desire to even consider funding such a thing.

BTW, the pedestrian sidewalk on Cobb Pkwy. under 285 is just awful. That whole intersection is designed for cars only, period. There is no way in hell that that narrow sidewalk could handle even a couple thousand Braves fans on gameday. And that's to say nothing of the harrowing intersections with the I-285 onramps and offramps.

In other words, they really do need to build some sort of bridge, IMO.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.8844...7i13312!8i6656

The sidewalk stops for 100'.
Ott is an idiot and I am shocked he suggested this idea, it would cost more than the stadium itself and last for 5 years.
Opening day 2017 is going to be a disaster. I wonder if Vegas has any odds on it?

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Braves Stadium Relocation Shaping Up to Be a Disaster | Streetsblog USA

Getting desperate, Cobb County Commissioner Bob Ott recently suggested that as an alternative to the bridge the county could reconstruct I-285 to run under the Cobb Parkway

GDOT's reaction: