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You still don't get it. There is no reason for them to 'fight'. They are successful as a group and do things on their own. They are self starters. I am around them all the time. The younger generation is focused on one thing: school. The older generation is focused on one thing: work or growing their business. They don't find an excuse or injustice around every corner. They don't have time for it. The very reason a lot of them are successful is they don't look for slights or injustice. They are too busy being productive and trying to better not only their life but their families life as well. Do you understand this?
On the bold, that is why whites "flight" away from them lol.
And again, there are many Asian Americans today who do "fight" the stereotypes of their demographic and are making gains in bringing their issues to the forefront. This is because they know that the "bamboo ceiling" is a real thing and that even when they get the best grades and go to Harvard or they get a position in a great company, there is VERY little chance of them having much upward trajectory in their careers in comparison to white Americans, and this is primarily based upon the stereotype of Asians being nerdy and geeky and not sophisticated enough to run large corporations. Please note, I do not believe these stereotypes personally but it is something that many Asians today write and advocate about in this country. I have Asian American in-laws and those my age and younger, this is a concern for them based primarily upon the fact that I grew up in the same neighborhood as my in-laws and other Asian American associates/friends (they are Vietnamese refugees) and they dealt with many of the same socio-economic issues that I dealt with as a black student. Today out of my classes, even though the Asians got the best grades, career-wise the white and black students from our class are more "successful" when it comes to careers than the Vietnamese students. Some attribute it to cultural differences and lack of English language skills (for those who came to America when they were older). But others who spoke perfect, non-accented English, they do feel that the stereotypes of Asian Americans hurt them in their jobs because they are not seen as "leaders." And this is something that many Asian Americans do speak about.
Ask you in-laws about it and see if they feel they are stereotyped at work or limited in higher level employment based on those stereotypes (without injecting any sort Asians against others sorts of phrases). Their answers may surprise you.
On the bold, that is why whites "flight" away from them lol.
And again, there are many Asian Americans today who do "fight" the stereotypes of their demographic and are making gains in bringing their issues to the forefront. This is because they know that the "bamboo ceiling" is a real thing and that even when they get the best grades and go to Harvard or they get a position in a great company, there is VERY little chance of them having much upward trajectory in their careers in comparison to white Americans, and this is primarily based upon the stereotype of Asians being nerdy and geeky and not sophisticated enough to run large corporations. Please note, I do not believe these stereotypes personally but it is something that many Asians today write and advocate about in this country. I have Asian American in-laws and those my age and younger, this is a concern for them based primarily upon the fact that I grew up in the same neighborhood as my in-laws and other Asian American associates/friends (they are Vietnamese refugees) and they dealt with many of the same socio-economic issues that I dealt with as a black student. Today out of my classes, even though the Asians got the best grades, career-wise the white and black students from our class are more "successful" when it comes to careers than the Vietnamese students. Some attribute it to cultural differences and lack of English language skills (for those who came to America when they were older). But others who spoke perfect, non-accented English, they do feel that the stereotypes of Asian Americans hurt them in their jobs because they are not seen as "leaders." And this is something that many Asian Americans do speak about.
Ask you in-laws about it and see if they feel they are stereotyped at work or limited in higher level employment based on those stereotypes (without injecting any sort Asians against others sorts of phrases). Their answers may surprise you.
I don't even have to ask because I know they don't feel that way. They own their own business so no they are not 'limited' in any way. They also do not believe in a 'bamboo ceiling' they don't look for a boogeyman to blame in every aspect of their life which is why they are so successful. Also, it is impossible for every single person of a group be it Asian, 'White', Hispanic, or Black to be successful as we have already covered that. The ones who are not successful do not overshadow the ones who are successful which you seem to not to be able to understand.
Again, you really need to read about what is happening in San Francisco and other California cities. 'Whites' are being pushed out of San Fran due to housing prices. Has nothing to do with racism. Kinda ironic considering this threads title.
Everyone is being pushed out of San Francisco due to housing costs.
The article I posted is specifically about metro Atlanta and about Cupertino, CA.
You evidently didn't read it.
FYI white flight in the context of all minority groups has been extensively studied for Latinos, blacks, and Asian Americans and the conclusion is basically that white people don't want to live around "too many" minorities. No matter which minority it is, if one of them reaches in excess of 20% of the population of a neighborhood, city, or suburb, then the whites will move out. Not because they can't afford to live there. Whites are the wealthiest group of all Americans.
For both Latinos and blacks the excuses will be "crime and schools."
For Asians it will, ironically also be schools - they do not feel their kids are smart enough compared to Asian kids. Also the view of Asians as foreigners taking over the place makes whites not want to live around them.
And FWIW it covers all sorts of Asians even Asian Indians. They also have the double discriminatory factor being that many people think they are Muslims, since they're brown skinned and don't have typical SE Asian features. And Americans today are afraid of Muslims.
ETA: Will also note that I remember an interview with Roland Martin and Richard Spencer, a white supremacist/nationalist who, in that video actually did admit that he felt Asians were smarter than white people and that whites need to maintain their "white culture" and "white communities" because Asians were smarter lol. Roland, rightly focused in on that and said that he was afraid of Asians. Richard's position is one that is repeated a lot by whites who do not want to live in neighborhoods with a large Asian American population or send their kids to school with predominantly Asian American children. They are afraid of them. Unfortunately (or fortunately for these racist groups) many racist ideologies are being much more docile in their rhetoric but if you keep asking them questions, you come to the realization that these ideas and the activities - like white flight - really are centered primarily on racist viewpoints - meaning an implied inferiority or superiority of a particular group over another. If Asian Americans are seen as "superior" to another group, that means the person viewing them in that way is a racist.
Last edited by residinghere2007; 03-14-2017 at 09:56 AM..
I don't even have to ask because I know they don't feel that way. They own their own business so no they are not 'limited' in any way. They also do not believe in a 'bamboo ceiling' they don't look for a boogeyman to blame in every aspect of their life which is why they are so successful. Also, it is impossible for every single person of a group be it Asian, 'White', Hispanic, or Black to be successful as we have already covered that. The ones who are not successful do not overshadow the ones who are successful which you seem to not to be able to understand.
If you don't ask, you don't know how they feel. You are not a minority. You don't know what they feel or what they experience and won't know if you don't ask them and actually take their feelings and words to be their truth, no matter what they say.
FWIW, I also have white in-laws and many of them since Obama was elected have asked questions of black family members about race and how we feel about race relations. Until asking us, they never knew that we felt the way we do about being black in America (that racism still exists and racial discrimination is still at play in our society). Within families, you rarely discuss these things most of the time and I highly doubt that your family members haven't experienced any sort of feelings of discrimination as Asian Americans.
And I never said they look for a "boogey man." I said that the bamboo ceiling is something that has been written about and advocated against by Asian Americans, which is the truth you are trying not to see I guess.
Also, I never said that the least successful people represent the masses either. Not sure how you got that from what I've stated. It is just interesting to me that you are stating that "all" the Asians you know are "successful" and that they are because they don't "whine." LOL. I refuted that position. I know a lot of unsuccessful Asian Americans. I grew up with Asian Americans, I've worked with Asian Americans (as employees and clients), and I have Asian American in-laws. So I know they are not all "successful" because they don't "whine." I also know all of them aren't good at school and they all don't own businesses.
I am black and successful, yet I do discuss discrimination and I am a student of history and know how it can and did affect people's lives both past and present for all demographics in our country (including whites). Discussing something or saying something is an issue, like the bamboo ceiling is not "whining."
That is the difference I guess between yourself and me. I can discuss any sort of controversial topic and not feel that the other person's POV of that topic is "whining." To me it is a discussion. Asians do discuss the bamboo ceiling and the harmful effects of the "model minority" label. Them discussing and analyzing these things is not them "whining" about anything nor does it diminish their individual success.
If you don't ask, you don't know how they feel. You are not a minority. You don't know what they feel or what they experience and won't know if you don't ask them and actually take their feelings and words to be their truth, no matter what they say.
FWIW, I also have white in-laws and many of them since Obama was elected have asked questions of black family members about race and how we feel about race relations. Until asking us, they never knew that we felt the way we do about being black in America (that racism still exists and racial discrimination is still at play in our society). Within families, you rarely discuss these things most of the time and I highly doubt that your family members haven't experienced any sort of feelings of discrimination as Asian Americans.
And I never said they look for a "boogey man." I said that the bamboo ceiling is something that has been written about and advocated against by Asian Americans, which is the truth you are trying not to see I guess.
Also, I never said that the least successful people represent the masses either. Not sure how you got that from what I've stated. It is just interesting to me that you are stating that "all" the Asians you know are "successful" and that they are because they don't "whine." LOL. I refuted that position. I know a lot of unsuccessful Asian Americans. I grew up with Asian Americans, I've worked with Asian Americans (as employees and clients), and I have Asian American in-laws. So I know they are not all "successful" because they don't "whine." I also know all of them aren't good at school and they all don't own businesses.
I am black and successful, yet I do discuss discrimination and I am a student of history and know how it can and did affect people's lives both past and present for all demographics in our country (including whites). Discussing something or saying something is an issue, like the bamboo ceiling is not "whining."
That is the difference I guess between yourself and me. I can discuss any sort of controversial topic and not feel that the other person's POV of that topic is "whining." To me it is a discussion. Asians do discuss the bamboo ceiling and the harmful effects of the "model minority" label. Them discussing and analyzing these things is not them "whining" about anything nor does it diminish their individual success.
Don't try and tell me what discussions I have and have not had with my in-laws or other family members. They don't share any of the beliefs you are trying to bestow upon them I can assure you of that. They have a very singular focus in life and it isn't worrying about President Obama or anything else. I am a student of history also. You don't hear Jewish people blaming the Holocaust for not being able to build wealth or find a job in 2017. You don't hear Japanese people in America blaming FDR's Internment Camps for not being able to get a job or build wealth in 2017. All people have been discriminated against at some point in history. Asians are no different but they don't conjure up these things as an excuse they just find ways to work and improve their situation in life. I not once have said all Asians are successful I have actually said three times now that it is literally impossible for every cross section of an ethnicity to be 100% successful.
Don't try and tell me what discussions I have and have not had with my in-laws or other family members. They don't share any of the beliefs you are trying to bestow upon them I can assure you of that. They have a very singular focus in life and it isn't worrying about President Obama or anything else. I am a student of history also. You don't hear Jewish people blaming the Holocaust for not being able to build wealth or find a job in 2017. You don't hear Japanese people in America blaming FDR's Internment Camps for not being able to get a job or build wealth in 2017. All people have been discriminated against at some point in history. Asians are no different but they don't conjure up these things as an excuse they just find ways to work and improve their situation in life. I not once have said all Asians are successful I have actually said three times now that it is literally impossible for every cross section of an ethnicity to be 100% successful.
All the groups you mentioned received reperatations and apologies though. Hell Israel still gets money to this day basically. My community never even got an apology. So yeah color us jaded when we see groups like the Japanese get reparations and apologies for something that lasted 4 years while white people won't even acknowledge and consistently downplay something they did to us for 400 years. Literally LMBAO because I have to so the rage won't consume my soul so I'll at least be able to function on a day to day basis without losing it
Don't try and tell me what discussions I have and have not had with my in-laws or other family members. They don't share any of the beliefs you are trying to bestow upon them I can assure you of that. They have a very singular focus in life and it isn't worrying about President Obama or anything else. I am a student of history also. You don't hear Jewish people blaming the Holocaust for not being able to build wealth or find a job in 2017. You don't hear Japanese people in America blaming FDR's Internment Camps for not being able to get a job or build wealth in 2017. All people have been discriminated against at some point in history. Asians are no different but they don't conjure up these things as an excuse they just find ways to work and improve their situation in life. I not once have said all Asians are successful I have actually said three times now that it is literally impossible for every cross section of an ethnicity to be 100% successful.
Eh...I'm black and I have a job and I don't hear hardly any black people complaining in 2017 about not being able to find a job due to slavery in the 19th century. So it goes all around.
I'm black and I am educated and have a job and a business and I don't "whine."
Either.
And I agree that it is impossible for every cross section of an ethnicity to be 100% successful, just like it is impossible to believe that everyone in a particular group - like black Americans which are alluding to you with your "blaming" comments, are 100% unsuccessful.
And again, you don't know what people think or experience who are a part of a minority. I'm black and don't know what white people experience when they are the majority. To admit that is the truth.
I also didn't say that any of your family members shared the opinions I stated other Asian Americans have. I suggested you ask them. You are very defensive about that suggestion and IMO that implies that you have never spoken to them about if they are stereotyped as Asian Americans in this country. If you don't want to ask, that's cool, but just like you stated all Asian Americans aren't successful, all of them aren't unwilling to discuss the negative stereotypes they face either. You just may have to ask them to know about it.
All the groups you mentioned received reperatations and apologies though. Hell Israel still gets money to this day basically. My community never even got an apology. So yeah color us jaded when we see groups like the Japanese get reparations and apologies for something that lasted 4 years while white people won't even acknowledge and consistently downplay something they did to us for 400 years. Literally LMBAO because I have to so the rage won't consume my soul so I'll at least be able to function on a day to day basis without losing it
There are plenty of countries that get money and aid from the United States. It isn't just Israel. Matter of fact here are the countries we currently give foreign aid besides Israel. Sure are a lot of African countries on that list. Who are you wanting an apology from? The people in Africa who captured and sold you to slave traders from a myriad of nations? The Holocaust was actual genocide. Slavery was not. People had their property and wealth taken from them and then were gassed or burned to death. The people in the Holocaust aren't around to demand an apology because they are dead. Kind of puts things in perspective. I haven't heard one Jewish person blame this atrocity for their position in life.
Eh...I'm black and I have a job and I don't hear hardly any black people complaining in 2017 about not being able to find a job due to slavery in the 19th century. So it goes all around.
I'm black and I am educated and have a job and a business and I don't "whine."
Either.
And I agree that it is impossible for every cross section of an ethnicity to be 100% successful, just like it is impossible to believe that everyone in a particular group - like black Americans which are alluding to you with your "blaming" comments, are 100% unsuccessful.
And again, you don't know what people think or experience who are a part of a minority. I'm black and don't know what white people experience when they are the majority. To admit that is the truth.
I also didn't say that any of your family members shared the opinions I stated other Asian Americans have. I suggested you ask them. You are very defensive about that suggestion and IMO that implies that you have never spoken to them about if they are stereotyped as Asian Americans in this country. If you don't want to ask, that's cool, but just like you stated all Asian Americans aren't successful, all of them aren't unwilling to discuss the negative stereotypes they face either. You just may have to ask them to know about it.
LOL I am around minorities 24/7 365. They are my family. We actually talk. I don't have to ask them because we actually discuss things and they offer their thoughts/opinions/beliefs you seemed to not pick up on that.
There are plenty of countries that get money and aid from the United States. It isn't just Israel. Matter of fact here are the countries we currently give foreign aid besides Israel. Sure are a lot of African countries on that list. Who are you wanting an apology from? The people in Africa who captured and sold you to slave traders from a myriad of nations? The Holocaust was actual genocide. Slavery was not. People had their property and wealth taken from them and then were gassed or burned to death. The people in the Holocaust aren't around to demand an apology because they are dead. Kind of puts things in perspective. I haven't heard one Jewish person blame this atrocity for their position in life.
FYI - the Japanese Americans got reparations from the US government and got that due to their activism (which I guess you would call "whining") and they were inspired to do so by black American's and the CRM BTW.
Also Jews got reparations from Germany, not from America whose families got settlements due to being victims of the Holocaust.
Do you think that people seeking grievances for wrongdoings committed against them personally are "blaming?" Do you think the Japanese Americans shouldn't have gotten reparations? Do you think the Jews shouldn't have gotten reparations?
FWIW, I personally don't believe that black Americans should get reparations due to slavery. But I do feel that black Americans whose property was stolen or who was harmed during the CRM should be eligible for at least free medical care and a cash payment for stolen property since many of them are still alive and they were personally harmed, like the Japanese and like the Jews. But I doubt that will ever happen because of intense racism against blacks in this country. That is not me whining BTW. Just a discussion about the facts of the matter.
Also, what does African aid have to do with black Americans. We are Americans. We are not Africans. We have longer roots in America than most white people in this country. And slavery in many ways is worse than genocide. I would personally rather be killed than be a slave.
Also the Jews were both victims of genocide and slaves of Germany.
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