What would be some Realistic MARTA expansion dates? (Atlanta, Sandy Springs: home, transfer to)

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

I don't see how $9 fare would be a win-win for anyone except a class of elite people who seem hell-bent on squeezing anyone who makes under $100K a year out of the metro entirely.

Right, got it, you want a regressive sales tax funding model instead, that hardly inconveniences the elite, while screwing the people on the bottom end who are struggling for every dollar.

Private corporations contributing funding for public goods, to me that sounds like something even the Bernie Sanders crowd would appreciate.

[primaltech]

Commuter rail for the exurban elite, could get those people's SUV's off the freeways, easing traffic for the rest of us.

[bryantm3]

I mean it's just common sense. There are only going to be a small percentage of people who can afford a $9 one-way fare. Now, do you mean this for new exurban commuter lines only, or are you talking about going systemwide $9? I might be combining your argument with B2R's.

I'm just generally not thrilled about this whole push to hand everything over to private corporations and have the government eliminate all the competition and guarantee business. It's antithetical to the idea of a free society.

[primaltech]

No, I mean I was just talking about commuter rail fare. It's $9 to ride their fancy new commuter rail in Denver, that's where I got that figure.

Honestly, I'm open to whatever under the sun, just as long as we're getting to the point of actually having commuter rail, of actually having regional and metropolitan rail transit beyond just the very limited current MARTA train system. It'd be nice.

I think a lot of people want other options besides the freeway traffic every morning. But maybe I'm "out of touch".

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by arjay57

What about the $3 billion sales tax we just voted in and which started 3 weeks ago?

Seems like we ought to be able to do something with that kind of money.

If nothing else, carve out 2% and put 500 new buses on the road.

There are a lot of people whose lives will be greatly and immediately improved by that.

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by walker1962

Its truly ridiculous that MARTA (48 miles total now) was the first rail in the south/Sunbelt states, post WWII, but with the past 10 years has been surpassed in total rail miles by Dallas (DART light rail of 93 miles plus the 30 mile Trinity rail express to Fort Worth),Denver (76 miles), and Portland Or (60 miles) . Both Portland and Denver are much smaller metro areas too. Same thing with road infrastructure. Nothing major completed in the last FIFTEEN to TWENTY years! That's some pathetic local and state capital leadership!

Apples and oranges. Dallas, Denver, and Portland built light rail systems that are far cheaper than the type of rail MARTA uses. While you can stand back and marvel at the amount of trackage, those systems are not capable of handling the same number passengers as the type of rail system we have. In fact, MARTA carries more people on a daily basis than all three systems combined.

To highlight just how irrelevant your comparison is, in the same time frame you mentioned the rail systems of Boston (less trackage than marta), Philadelphia (less trackage than marta), Chicago, Baltimore, and the Bay Area have also not expanded. NYC and DC have had expansions, but they pale in comparison to the amount of trackage that Dallas, Denver, and Portland have laid down.

Track length doesn't make a transit system effective. It must go to the right places and serve the right type of population to have high usage. Portland does a good job of doing both, but Dallas and Denver fall far short in comparison to MARTA.

[cqholt]

Denver and Portland are more homogeneous populations.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by primaltech

I still think that the State of GA, via GDOT, via GRTA, should swallow up and consolidate and control all the metro ATL transit, and operate everything and unify the branding (as GRTA), like MBTA does everything up in Boston. CRT, HRT, LRT, BRT, etc.

Then the 13-county GRTA area would fund it appropriately according to need, maybe at 1% sales tax for the 5 core counties, 1.5% for Atlanta proper, and .5% for the outer metro counties, who would just get commuter rail and express buses.

Then they could use P3's like the arrangement above, to quickly build out tons of commuter rail lines throughout the entire region, plus heavy rail to North Fulton and SE DeKalb, and light rail for Emory, and etc. And Blue Line to Fulton Industrial.

If we'd just simply do that next year, the whole region could be connected with frequent passenger rail probably by 2028. I don't get why we can't just get our act together and just do it.

Because commuter rail doesn't make sense for those outlying areas. There just aren't enough people going to one place.

I don't see any need for counties outside the 5 core to be in a mass transit system. They can fund park-n-rides as needed. But they are just too spread out and lightly populated now and in the forseeable future. Downtown to Buford is 37 miles. There isn't enough demand beyond that distance.

[primaltech]

I dunno. Woodstock (in Cherokee) is no further from Atlanta than Acworth is (or Lawrenceville, for that matter), and it has a higher population. If there's commuter rail to Acworth in Cobb, surely it would make just as much sense for commuter rail to Woodstock also. Downtown Woodstock is also very dense and walkable, and would be ideal for a station right there.

Most would say Cartersville and Canton and Dallas are really your ideal end of the line stations for NW regional commuter rail lines. They're fairly large towns, and county seats of their respective exurban counties.

But if only Cobb gets commuter rail, I'm fine enough with that, too.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by primaltech

No, I mean I was just talking about commuter rail fare. It's $9 to ride their fancy new commuter rail in Denver, that's where I got that figure.

Honestly, I'm open to whatever under the sun, just as long as we're getting to the point of actually having commuter rail, of actually having regional and metropolitan rail transit beyond just the very limited current MARTA train system. It'd be nice.

I think a lot of people want other options besides the freeway traffic every morning. But maybe I'm "out of touch".

Point of clearification, it's $9 to go to the airport. It's only 10¢ more expensive, in Denver, to ride in 1 & 2 fare zones than to take MARTA. That's for both the Light Rail and Commuter Rail.

Originally Posted by cqholt

Denver and Portland are more homogeneous populations.

I hate this kind of argument.