What would be some Realistic MARTA expansion dates?

[Born 2 Roll]

The desire to want to dramatically want to increase bus operations as a means of much more quickly increasing transit service and as an alternative to spending more money on the startup of rail transit projects is understandable and laudable.

But pouring resources into just significantly increased bus service alone might be somewhat misguided in an era where we appear to need a much more nuanced and multimodal approach to improving transit.

We should not and cannot just focus our resources on significantly increasing bus service alone. In addition to significantly improving bus service we also have to be extremely attentive to improving longer-distance travel throughout the region with BOTH regional commuter rail service and regional commuter/express bus service. We also have to improve last-mile connectivity by synergizing local and regional bus and rail service with the ridesharing and car-sharing services that continue to grow in use and popularity during the second decade of the 21st Century.

Increasing the amount and availability will be a key component of improving transit service in a mobility-challenged metro area/region like Atlanta.

But improving transit in a large major city/metro area/region of this size has to be executed with a multifaceted approach, not just a focus on one sole mode of transportation at the expense of providing much-needed attention to other modes of public transportation that are increasingly relevant in this era.

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Let’s say we purchase 400 sleek new top of the line CNG buses for $500,000 each. That would be a $200 million capital expenditure, or about 7% of the new money being generated by the additional MARTA tax.

Exactly. And even if you double that figure, to account for the drivers and maintenance and whatever other necessary associated costs, then that's $400 million, still just a fraction of the budget of their total 1/2 penny tax over 40 years. Most of that could still go to whatever rail projects.

And the impact of it would be... unreal for the city. MARTA currently I think has something like 500 buses TOTAL, in all of its service area combined. So, to drop in 400 additional buses, that would operate only within the city limits proper- you could have TRIPLED bus frequency in the city. And maybe even add new routes.

So, it's stupid not to do that. To spend that same amount on a few streetcar routes instead... that's dumb.

And like I said, you need the transit signal priority and whatever other fixes that would alleviate bunching. But if you have a bus coming every 5 minutes on weekdays, or every 10 minutes on weekends, I believe that might even change the entire culture of Atlanta. Them buses would be regularly packed.

Even sitting in the same traffic. People would rather somebody else drive them in bad traffic, than drive in it. As long as they can grab the next bus quickly, conveniently, reliably, with so much frequency that the city wouldn't even need time tables.

IMHO, that's the ticket.

[SAAN]

Marta could add 1000 buses, but buses suck when they are stuck in traffic.

When I worked in Dunwoody, the 150 bus just crawled along Ashford Dunwoody Rd around the Mall, where it was faster for me to walk to the Station many times at rush hr.

I know many people that take the Xpress 428 in the early morning from Panola Rd to Perimeter, but refuse to take it in the Afternoon, as the bus just sits on I 285 and I20 with all the rest of the traffic and can take up to 1.5-2hrs sometimes to make that trip.

I think if the DOT made ALL the shoulder lanes accessible to transit buses and emergency vehicles only, they could do a massive expansion of the Express buses and even start new Marat Routes like Indian Creek or Kensington to Dunwoody Station or bring back the Stonecrest to Downtown Atlanta route, so people on the East side to have to take the train. After that they could possibly run a Discover Mills to Airport type route or Northside (Alpharetta) to Airport type route.

[fourthwarden]

So... pulling the thread back on topic, here's the timeline that MARTA had in its presentations for the expansions:



Granted, the plan requires that New Starts and Small Starts are still in place, but there are roughly 4 years worth of engineering and development that would need to happen anyway. So, if the grants are removed, there's potentially time for them to be reinstated before the applications are actually put in.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by primaltech

Exactly. And even if you double that figure, to account for the drivers and maintenance and whatever other necessary associated costs, then that's $400 million, still just a fraction of the budget of their total 1/2 penny tax over 40 years. Most of that could still go to whatever rail projects.

And the impact of it would be... unreal for the city. MARTA currently I think has something like 500 buses TOTAL, in all of its service area combined. So, to drop in 400 additional buses, that would operate only within the city limits proper- you could have TRIPLED bus frequency in the city. And maybe even add new routes.

So, it's stupid not to do that. To spend that same amount on a few streetcar routes instead... that's dumb.

And like I said, you need the transit signal priority and whatever other fixes that would alleviate bunching. But if you have a bus coming every 5 minutes on weekdays, or every 10 minutes on weekends, I believe that might even change the entire culture of Atlanta. Them buses would be regularly packed.

Even sitting in the same traffic. People would rather somebody else drive them in bad traffic, than drive in it. As long as they can grab the next bus quickly, conveniently, reliably, with so much frequency that the city wouldn't even need time tables.

IMHO, that's the ticket.

It's also important for MARTA to keep its priorities straight.

MARTA's core ridership isn't wealthy suburbanites in North Fulton nor is it millennials living in $500,000 gentrified bungalows.

Instead, 80% of MARTA riders are working people who HAVE to deal with infrequent service, inconvenient locations and extremely long waits. Many don't have cars, so taking MARTA is not an optional activity. I have personally talked with a number of people who spend over 2 hours each way commuting on MARTA. If they miss a bus, it can be far longer than that. See, for example, Waiting for a ride.

Yet the core riders are paying in the sales tax at the same rate as people with vastly greater resources. Are we going to tell these hardworking folks that they can't get a few percentage points of the tax increase for more frequent and convenient bus routes? And that it's because well to do people would like to buzz around Midtown or the Beltline on multi-billion dollar streetcars which will eat up over 90% of the funding for decades to come?

[PKCorey]

Originally Posted by SAAN

I know many people that take the Xpress 428 in the early morning from Panola Rd to Perimeter, but refuse to take it in the Afternoon, as the bus just sits on I 285 and I20 with all the rest of the traffic and can take up to 1.5-2hrs sometimes to make that trip.

How do they return home?

I think if the DOT made ALL the shoulder lanes accessible to transit buses and emergency vehicles only, they could do a massive expansion of the Express buses and even start new Marat Routes like Indian Creek or Kensington to Dunwoody Station or bring back the Stonecrest to Downtown Atlanta route, so people on the East side to have to take the train. After that they could possibly run a Discover Mills to Airport type route or Northside (Alpharetta) to Airport type route.

GRTA plans to do that in the next couple years with the airport routes to the various outer nodes.

[SAAN]

Originally Posted by PKCorey

How do they return home?



GRTA plans to do that in the next couple years with the airport routes to the various outer nodes.

They would go downtown and take the 422 or423 at the time or now 426 to Panola, since GRTA screwed up the 423 route and it doesnt do southbound pickups at Civic Center anymore.

[fieldm]

Any new updates? Is Dekalb still BS'ing around about not expanding the Blue line?

Is Alpharetta still BS'ing about expanding the red line?

[Clayton white guy]

We in beautiful Clayton County are STILL waiting to hear about the plans for OUR rail line.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by Clayton white guy

We in beautiful Clayton County are STILL waiting to hear about the plans for OUR rail line.

Almost like they have to spend time studying the options, or something.

Edit: It might help, also, if you'd bother to go actually look at MARTA's page for Clayton. If you did, you would have seen that they posted a presentation from the end of August that gives info on study status, survey responses, corridor refinement, and next steps.