Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I’m not 100% sure how true this statement is either. It’s true that unchecked consumerism is a thing (regardless of race). But “income equality” is about income, not necessarily amassed wealth. Like how and why more black people and women often make less money than their white and make counterparts, even with similar (or even higher) education, experience, expertise, etc. There are many other examples, but I’ll leave it at that...
I know this is a whole other discussion, but I think one should make that distinction. Spending and income are related, but are two different things. Perhaps you meant to say wealth gap. But interestingly enough, income inequality plays a role in that as well (among many other factors—including consumerism).
Why do people keep talking about Black and White? White people are not the highest earners. Plenty of ethnic minorities either native born or not come to America and succeed. It isn't a race thing or racism or institutional racism. If it were these statistics below would not exist. The fact that Indian Americans are the highest and African Americans are the lowest has nothing to do with inequalities. There is more to it.
We don't live in a meritocracy. Maybe that's the ideal to pursue, but we are not there. I feel like many of you have the convenience to ignore the problems that don't affect you. Which is fair— everybody's got more on their plate than they can deal with right now.
But what I get constantly on this forum is the implication that the problems I'm speaking about don't exist at all and the reason that some of us are having them is due to lack of initiative. Do you believe that is the case?
Student A studies hard, goes to class, does homework, is driven and follows the rules.
Student B stays up drinking, cuts class, doesn't do homework, lazy, breaks all the rules.
They both had the same opportunity, but one excelled the other failed. Yet the outcome should be equal?
Equity of outcomes is impossible and goes against science.
Student A studies hard, goes to class, does homework, is driven and follows the rules.
Student B stays up drinking, cuts class, doesn't do homework, lazy, breaks all the rules.
They both had the same opportunity, but one excelled the other failed. Yet the outcome should be equal?
Equity of outcomes is impossible and goes against science.
I don't think anyone would argue with your example, but when most people are talking about inequality, it often looks like:
Student A studies hard, goes to class, does homework, is driven and follows the rules.
Student B studies twice as hard, goes to more classes, does extra homework, is driven and follows the rules, but submits their resume with an ethnic-sounding name and is passed over for the job in favor of Student A.
Student C studies hard, goes to class, does homework, is driven and follows the rules, but can't afford to take that unpaid internship that Student A snagged because of family support.
There are a thousand other examples where equity isn't about pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. You have to recognize the structural issues that keep people from having or taking an opportunity in the first place.
I don't think anyone would argue with your example, but when most people are talking about inequality, it often looks like:
Student A studies hard, goes to class, does homework, is driven and follows the rules.
Student B studies twice as hard, goes to more classes, does extra homework, is driven and follows the rules, but submits their resume with an ethnic-sounding name and is passed over for the job in favor of Student A.
Student C studies hard, goes to class, does homework, is driven and follows the rules, but can't afford to take that unpaid internship that Student A snagged because of family support.
There are a thousand other examples where equity isn't about pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. You have to recognize the structural issues that keep people from having or taking an opportunity in the first place.
Did you happen to see the chart I posted above? Ethnic sounding names or structural issues don't seem to be hindering people regardless of ethnicity with education, employment, and income. You are parroting something that isn't backed up by the actual statistics. You have bought into the divisive lie. Somewhere along the line the last few years people have tried to replace 'equality' with 'equity'. Equity of outcomes is impossible and those terms are very different.
Why do people keep talking about Black and White? White people are not the highest earners. Plenty of ethnic minorities either native born or not come to America and succeed. It isn't a race thing or racism or institutional racism. If it were these statistics below would not exist. The fact that Indian Americans are the highest and African Americans are the lowest has nothing to do with inequalities. There is more to it.
And as usual, Indian Americans get trotted out as a cudgel against other ethnic groups who haven't succeeded. My South Asian friends hate being the model minority that conservative white people want to parade out as evidence that racism doesn't exist.
You can't compare a group of people who have the means to immigrate to the U.S. with an H1-B visa to a population that is immersed in a society that has been set up to keep them from succeeding for centuries.
And as usual, Indian Americans get trotted out as a cudgel against other ethnic groups who haven't succeeded. My South Asian friends hate being the model minority that conservative white people want to parade out as evidence that racism doesn't exist.
You can't compare a group of people who have the means to immigrate to the U.S. with an H1-B visa to a population that is immersed in a society that has been set up to keep them from succeeding for centuries.
If you look at the chart it isn't just Indian Americans. My wife is Korean American. The term model minority again is a figment to try and be divisive and make excuses for others perceived failures. Failures, which with the exception of one group in reality do not exist as the statistics show. It isn't just one group of people who are emigrating here and being successful. It is many groups as the statistics show. Somehow despite all the racism and inequalities that you are saying are out there these many groups are managing to overcome. Why is that? From my own experiences with such a 'model minority' is education is valued in an extremely high manner.
If you look at the chart it isn't just Indian Americans. My wife is Korean American. The term model minority again is a figment to try and be divisive and make excuses for others perceived failures. Failures, which with the exception of one group in reality do not exist as the statistics show. It isn't just one group of people who are emigrating here and being successful. It is many groups as the statistics show. Somehow despite all the racism and inequalities that you are saying are out there these many groups are managing to overcome. Why is that? From my own experiences with such a 'model minority' is education is valued in an extremely high manner.
I think what you're failing to see is that the type of person who is able to immigrate to the U.S. is already operating at a much higher capacity for success than your average American. This cuts across all ethnic groups, and I see it in African immigrants, too. It actually illustrates the degree to which ethnic minorities have to work and study twice as hard to prove their worth compared to the native population.
To bring this around to the original topic of this post, this is why you see certain high-earning immigrant groups clustering in certain suburbs and neighborhoods. That network of people who tend to be concentrated in a couple of high-income career categories like tech and medicine creates a self-perpetuating means for success. This success has created a new wave of white flight that I've heard is happening in Johns Creek with white families moving to Milton or the ITP private schools where South Asians are doing well at Westminster and Woodward, which has created a bit of friction at those schools.
I think what you're failing to see is that the type of person who is able to immigrate to the U.S. is already operating at a much higher capacity for success than your average American. This cuts across all ethnic groups, and I see it in African immigrants, too. It actually illustrates the degree to which ethnic minorities have to work and study twice as hard to prove their worth compared to the native population.
To bring this around to the original topic of this post, this is why you see certain high-earning immigrant groups clustering in certain suburbs and neighborhoods. That network of people who tend to be concentrated in a couple of high-income career categories like tech and medicine creates a self-perpetuating means for success. This success has created a new wave of white flight that I've heard is happening in Johns Creek with white families moving to Milton or the ITP private schools where South Asians are doing well at Westminster and Woodward, which has created a bit of friction at those schools.
Yep. Northview High School in Johns Creek in North Fulton County appears to be one of the prime examples of the new wave of white flight that you are referring to.
At Northview, the proportion of white students at the school have dropped down to just above 20% as the Asian proportion of the student population has risen to about 58%.
Northview is a school that has a reputation of being increasingly intensely and even fiercely academically competitive and rigorous as the Asian population has continued to surge at the school and in the Northview cluster.
The word is that many white students and families have fled the area as the spiking number of Asian students and families have raised the academic environment there to heights that many onlookers might consider to be insane.
I think what you're failing to see is that the type of person who is able to immigrate to the U.S. is already operating at a much higher capacity for success than your average American. This cuts across all ethnic groups, and I see it in African immigrants, too. It actually illustrates the degree to which ethnic minorities have to work and study twice as hard to prove their worth compared to the native population.
To bring this around to the original topic of this post, this is why you see certain high-earning immigrant groups clustering in certain suburbs and neighborhoods. That network of people who tend to be concentrated in a couple of high-income career categories like tech and medicine creates a self-perpetuating means for success. This success has created a new wave of white flight that I've heard is happening in Johns Creek with white families moving to Milton or the ITP private schools where South Asians are doing well at Westminster and Woodward, which has created a bit of friction at those schools.
The issue with your post is that anyone is allowed to come here. All you have to do is cross a border either via foot, vehicle, or plane. The idea that only certain 'types' of people are able to immigrate here isn't true. We have a large number of Illegal Immigrants from all over the world here of which very few are deported compared to the overall number. Our Immigration system is by far the most benevolent in the world which is why so many people risk life and limb to come here. We essentially let anyone in. The idea that the native population is the only one that can benefit is simply not true. Illegal Immigration is one of the main culprits for wage suppression which of course impacts the native population of America disproportionately. That is a whole other issue though. As the actual facts illustrate there are high earning and successful people from all ethnic backgrounds and all career categories. It isn't just tech and medicine. You seem to be harping on one group as an example when the statistics show that isn't the case. The failures of one or two groups of minorities in America does not imply that the system is rigged or stacked against anyone in an institutional manner. It actually points to there being deeper issues that don't have anything to do with that. I'm not sure how much you have traveled but I can assure you that India, South Korea, China, Japan, etc. are not as tolerant as the United States is as far as immigration or race relations go. As a white, latino, or black person you have a far far greater chance of succeeding and being accepted in America than you do in any of the other countries I just listed. They will not be as accepting and benevolent to people who do not look like them. I unfortunately have first hand experience with that.
Yep. Northview High School in Johns Creek in North Fulton County appears to be one of the prime examples of the new wave of white flight that you are referring to.
At Northview, the proportion of white students at the school have dropped down to just above 20% as the Asian proportion of the student population has risen to about 58%.
Northview is a school that has a reputation of being increasingly intensely and even fiercely academically competitive and rigorous as the Asian population has continued to surge at the school and in the Northview cluster.
The word is that many white students and families have fled the area as the spiking number of Asian students and families have raised the academic environment there to heights that many onlookers might consider to be insane.
I don't think the issue is strictly white people moving out as it is more Asian and South Asian people moving in. Simply saying the white student population percentage is dropping doesn't tell the whole story. Demographic shifts in the city of Atlanta and metro Atlanta have been happening ever since 2000. One group doesn't have to leave for another group to move in and change demographics it isn't that simple and that doesn't tell the whole story. Makes for a great boogeyman though which seems to be what people want on here. The changing demographics of intown Atlanta show this as well more people are simply moving in which is skewing the percentages. This is nothing new.
An example of this is the Grady cluster in Atlanta which is now majority white for the first time in almost 50 years. It's not that anyone has left it is that there just happens to be a combination of:
more white people moving in and more white people sending their kids to the public schools. There is nothing nefarious about that it is just natural change.
Last edited by ronricks; 02-08-2021 at 10:50 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
