Population jumps within city of Atlanta (College Park: rentals, mortgage, loan)

[Merin]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

I can't speak for poor people in Atlanta, but I grew up in a poor, working class neighborhood in Appalachian Alabama. The families were hard-working, kept their homes and gardens up and the children were well-behaved. (You had no choice, everybody in the neighborhood was watching). We were never on welfare or food stamps, being rural we pretty much grew our own food.

I worked in social services for a long time and I've seen this entrenched poverty and sense of entitlement. Many people have become what we used to call, 'systemized.'

Thank you , as always I enjoy your posts. I would like to add, I have an aunt that was once on Food Stamps, about 14 years ago, for about a year. After much job searching, she was able to get a steady job and now makes about 100k a year. I agree the welfare and social system needs a re haul. Finally I can't help but to be jealous that you ate nothing but fresh produce growing up.

[orty1966]

"You can't simply plop someone who has lived in subsidized housing their entire lives into a middle class subdivision and expect them to succeed."

And that's the big debate right now over at AHA.. It's interesting, 10 years ago it would have been real rare to hear about a killing outside 285 in a sub-urban community.

How many happened like that in this Summer?

On your point ab deliberate politics of failure- I agree. The right wing believes as a core tenant that poverty is caused by lazyness. Tell that to the publix cashier with kids..

You'd think Georgians would have learned from the reconstruction, you know since Atlanta was essentially destroyed by the rich, what really works.

But thats Georgia for you. Race abouve all else.

[afonega1]

Originally Posted by orty1966

"You can't simply plop someone who has lived in subsidized housing their entire lives into a middle class subdivision and expect them to succeed."

And that's the big debate right now over at AHA.. It's interesting, 10 years ago it would have been real rare to hear about a killing outside 285 in a sub-urban community.

How many happened like that in this Summer?

On your point ab deliberate politics of failure- I agree. The right wing believes as a core tenant that poverty is caused by lazyness. Tell that to the publix cashier with kids..

You'd think Georgians would have learned from the reconstruction, you know since Atlanta was essentially destroyed by the rich, what really works.

But thats Georgia for you. Race abouve all else.

"You can't simply plop someone who has lived in subsidized housing their entire lives into a middle class subdivision and expect them to succeed."You say you must be poor, to have no pride or common sense?Black people as whole over the last 2-3 generation have expanded the middle class more than any other people in America due to the history.The poverty rate among African Americans is 25%(double total population avg)The chances are,blacks having the opportunities that were not available to them before are living the example that they are being exposed to an environment that is not what they are most likely used to.If it is true as you described,then thats only echoing racist remarks by people who use that as an excuse for not wanting blacks in their neighborhoods.Thats saying basically that if you are "black you will bring down the neighborhood" If you met my parents you wood have never though they grew up in extreme poverty.Even my Grandparents were not relegated acting by the size of their bank accounts.

My parents are well off,and im o.k.But my parents grew up poor.My grandparents taught ,manners,cleanliness, and respect.
I admit there are more people that do not get "home training" anymore.I still think anything is better than what we have had in the past:Cabrini Green Projects,Techwood Homes,Eastlake Medows.Magnolia Projects.Eventually people will learn because no body likes to stand out.You just weed out the really bad ones by enforcing strict regulations
What do you mean Atlanta was destroyed by the rich?

[Merin]

Originally Posted by afonega1

My parents are well off,and im o.k.But my parents grew up poor.My grandparents taught ,manners,cleanliness, and respect.
I admit there are more people that do not get "home training" anymore.I still think anything is better than what we have had in the past:Cabrini Green Projects,Techwood Homes,Eastlake Medows.Magnolia Projects.Eventually people will learn because no body likes to stand out.You just weed out the really bad ones by enforcing strict regulations
What do you mean Atlanta was destroyed by the rich?

You parents were able to succeed because they had two loving parents who took an active role in their lives. This isn't the case for many poor families on public assistance. I like your idea about strict regulations, that's what the AHA is currently implementing in their mixed use developments. Lets see if it works. I am also curious about the " destroyed by the rich" statement.

[onemanarmy]

Originally Posted by Merin

You parents were able to succeed because they had two loving parents who took an active role in their lives. This isn't the case for many poor families on public assistance. I like your idea about strict regulations, that's what the AHA is currently implementing in their mixed use developments. Lets see if it works. I am also curious about the " destroyed by the rich" statement.

I think we need to get out facts together. I qualified for a mixed use development and here are some of the requirements for the condos that allow "lower" income people, so described in this debate.

This is for 2b2ba Condo priced at 350k
-Income cannot exceed 54,000 year before being approved
-qualify for loan 155k, this is on your own, no special treatment from the City or the bank at market rate around 900 a month
-HOA 350.00
-City Taxes on 350k- 6000k a yr or 500.00

So with that being said the mortgage with HOA & taxes is $1750.00 a month these things are not designed for low income families, don't let the Orwellian double speak go to your head. This is not a black entitlement program for POOR people.

Rich and poor is not necessarily predetermined by race, but you are predisposition to be poor due to race in America, let's accept this try to alleviate it, and have meaningful dialogue.

[orty1966]

What I'm saying is- Atlanta went down a philosophical path like what the current ''right''(even though they are liberal to a large degree) believes, way way, way, way back.

That result did not go in Atlanta's favor. Rich people, as now, were in power during that time. They thought in terms of Win-Lose instead of Win-Win.

[RoslynHolcomb]

Afonega, why the assumption that I was talking about black people? For that matter, why the assumption that black=poor? Surely you haven't fallen for the fallacy that most of the poor people in this country are black? That may (or may not) be true around here, but it certainly isn't the case for most of the country. It's a mathematical impossibility. There simply aren't that many of us.

Regardless of where the people come from, you cannot expect people who have lived in multi-generational subsidized housing to survive when plopped into a middle-class atmosphere. If I'm understanding your post correctly, your parents/grandparents never lived in subsidized housing. Mine never did either. There is a different mindset that comes with that, especially when it's ingrained and multi-generational. I don't care if you're talking about the worst ghettoes of Atlanta or ingrained poverty in Appalachia (trust me I know Appalachian poverty), there's an adjustment that has to be made. Are some people capable of making it without support? Most assuredly, but many others are not. You rarely, if ever hear about the success stories, but the failures are on a continuous loop on any 24-hour news cycle. The successes go quietly on their way, they adapt, educate their kids and work hard like any other American.

If we truly want these programs to succeed we have to put the support networks in place. But I think we all know that we really don't want them to succeed. How else can we make ourselves feel superior? If there's no 'them,' how can there be an 'us?'

[RoslynHolcomb]

As for strict rules and regulations, I can only speak in comparison and contrast to working social services in two cities. In Birmingham, public housing was not strictly regulated (at least not up to 1995 when I left, I'm sure things are different now). There was regular violence, crime and I spent a lot of time working with gangs and such in the various subsidized housing communities.

In Huntsville, public housing was very strictly regulated. They would toss you out with very little provocation. As a result, I worked social services in that city for five years and never visited a subsidized housing complex. The only exception was cases with elderly people who took in their grandchildren, and I would simply do home visits as a social worker, not crisis intervention.

Unfortunately, there was one area of town with a lot of dilapidated apartments that should've been torn down long before I was born. This is where most of the folks who were kicked out of public housing wound up. So all the crime and various ills congregated there. I could literally have set up my office on any corner in that area and worked a few dozen child welfare cases. Don't even get me started on the substance abuse, prostitution, domestic violence, etc... that went on there regularly.

I suspect that essentially the same thing is happening here with the tear-down of low income housing. These 'projects' were put up in the previous century because people were living in substandard housing which were major disease vectors. Those same people were working in the homes of well-to-do and wealthy people. So the demand for low income housing grew. I don't understand why we don't learn from previous mistakes in this country. I really don't get it.

[orty1966]

Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb

If we truly want these programs to succeed we have to put the support networks in place. But I think we all know that we really don't want them to succeed. How else can we make ourselves feel superior? If there's no 'them,' how can there be an 'us?'

We're destined for another war if this is really true. My belief is that the pie isn't static. I beleive there indeed must be poor to be rich, but that doesn't preclude all humanity. My belief is that the social contract terms just haven't been properly promulgated.

Imagine a buyer and seller each with a contract, but it reads differently to each. You must then arbitrate, but to do so you need a impartial arbiter.
Indeed today the Federal Reserve has just done so. Weather it is impartial is the question...

[atlantagreg30127]

Originally Posted by onemanarmy

[color=black][font=Verdana]Rich and poor is not necessarily predetermined by race, but you are predisposition to be poor due to race in America, let's accept this try to alleviate it, and have meaningful dialogue.

If I'm reading this the way I think I am, then you very much need to spend a few days traveling through predominately white (and very much poor) Appalachia - Kentucky, West Virginia, Western Pennsylvania. Several million white people who are well below the poverty line in that whole region. Is this the group who are "predispositioned" to be poor?