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Savannah,Augusta(1733&1735) are both older than Atlanta and at one point were the most important cities in Georgia.Both were former state capitals.Savannah the cotton capital of the world when cotton was king.
Atlanta came along much later(1837).The railroads made Atlanta.Then the airport.After Atlanta was burned during the civil war.The federal government had to rebuild.After the demise of the agrarian nature of the Southern economies.Georgias former power house cities fell.Atlanta,Birmingham were just a few Southern cities that had a strong northern type of manufacturing base.Agriculture was not the dominant means for growth of the city.thats why the Battle of Atlanta was so important in the ending of the Civil War.It was a major contributer to the production of weapons,gunpowder etc.
That growth of rebuilding along with Atlanta railroads being the hub for the entire South,led to rapid growth during reconstruction through today.Atlanta funds its own transportation(MARTA),runs the Airport(for now) and pretty much operates as an autocratic community.The state of Georgia is not really responsible for Atlanta being what it is.
None of Georgia's cities never had desire until I say in the last 10-20 years to to become.Augusta and Savannah are the main ones.Columbus is trying as well ,but seems somewhat behind mainly because of its location.
It should also be noted that the State of Georgia has spent millions in Savannah.The airport,the shipping port(also the port of Brunswick) and the interstates and roads in Augusta.
Savannah Ports have been constantly widened and dredged for over 20-30 years.Thats why they are booming now
Even in Macon the state tried moving many of it offices their.They built various state museums that are located downtown Macon.
North Carolina does not have one major shipping port.No major city in its coast.
The gdp of GA and NC today almost identical.From 1992 Up until 2006 Georgia's was more than a 20billion more than NC.
While the GDp was dwn in Atlanta it.It has steadily grown in Savannah,Augusta,Columbus,Warner Robins,Athens etc...
All I meant was for the last 50-75 years Atlanta has held the title of Capitol of the South, Mecca of the South, etc.
The bottom line is that Georgia is a top ten state with 10 million residents. The Atlanta metro comprises about 60% of Georgia's livelihood, economic, population, activity, etc. And in general, Georgia needs to step up and make the Atlanta metro become as polished around the edges as say, Minneapolis, D.C., Phoenix, etc.
Georgia needs to support MARTA, build dozens of new freeways, boost tourism, snag more high tech, bio tech industries (like NC's research triangle, bio-tech activity) and carefully frame-out Georgia's future and the prosperity of its citizens.
North Carolina has probably built 1,000 miles of new interstate-quality highways since 1990, when Atlanta's freeways were finished. What has GDOT built new in the last 20 years? Skinny font highway signs(Poor readability has stopped this), renumbering exits (stupid methodology used before), basically GDOT is always doing necessary fixes to meet minimum standards.
NC is actually starting work now on Higher Speed Rail Service to the Northeast Corridor with the $545 million it won recently. Georgia got nothing, surprised?
NC's state agencies are filled with intelligent minds working proactively to make NC's future even brighter.
1)NC is constantly promoting the state all over the world as a great place to do business, with an exceptional quality of life. I just spent 10 years in NYC, and just the mention of North Carolina gets oohs and ahhs from everyone.
2) Who cares about GDP or ports? NC, as a state, tops Georgia and most other states, categorically down every line-item.
Charlotte's elegant skyline is tiny compared to Atlanta, however the fluted crown of the BofA tower, the Hearst tower's details, and the simple geometric iconography of the Duke Energy Headquarters have no competition in Atlanta, except for maybe 191 Peachtree.
Not the brown rocket on its launchpad (the burning cigarette), the Portman Q-bert tower, i like the Promenade, IBM tower ok-gorgeous at night, downtown classical with the two boobs on top is ok, i like 1010 midtown, buckhead towers overdose with meaningless motifs, huge need for simpler, less decorated "urban-fabric" exterior treatment similar to NYC's aesthetic for new towers.
Bloomberg headquarters NYC
You are so right! FWIW, Atlanta really is the standard for the rest of the fast-growing cities in the south, excluding Texas and Florida cities! Of course, each city is doing their own thing, however, it is only natural to measure their success and see how it measures up to Atlanta b/c Atlanta really has set a pretty high bar, almost like a sibling thing, where the younger sibling usually measures their sucesses to that of their older sibling(s)! Charlotte is doing an excellent job in their growth and development, I'm amazed at the strides it has made in the last 10 years, and I'm certain the next 10 years are going to be even more phenonemal!
LOL, Atlanta the "standard", " has set a pretty high bar", yeah right. Crappy infrastructure falling apart, city government barely functioning, downtown parking lots, unsavory central 5-points downtown area, inadequate freeways for population, hideous, neglected street thoroughfares like Piedmont Rd, Cheshire Bridge, Ponce, Buford Hwy, no billboard control, crumbling sewers, no coordination of transit among counties, infighting between counties that can't work together. Yes, this is the standard cities should strive for:
Georgia:
North Carolina:
Georgia:
All I meant was for the last 50-75 years Atlanta has held the title of Capitol of the South, Mecca of the South, etc.
The bottom line is that Georgia is a top ten state with 10 million residents. The Atlanta metro comprises about 60% of Georgia's livelihood, economic, population, activity, etc. And in general, Georgia needs to step up and make the Atlanta metro become as polished around the edges as say, Minneapolis, D.C., Phoenix, etc.
Georgia needs to support MARTA, build dozens of new freeways, boost tourism, snag more high tech, bio tech industries (like NC's research triangle, bio-tech activity) and carefully frame-out Georgia's future and the prosperity of its citizens.
North Carolina has probably built 1,000 miles of new interstate-quality highways since 1990, when Atlanta's freeways were finished. What has GDOT built new in the last 20 years? Skinny font highway signs(Poor readability has stopped this), renumbering exits (stupid methodology used before), basically GDOT is always doing necessary fixes to meet minimum standards.
NC is actually starting work now on Higher Speed Rail Service to the Northeast Corridor with the $545 million it won recently. Georgia got nothing, surprised?
NC's state agencies are filled with intelligent minds working proactively to make NC's future even brighter.
1)NC is constantly promoting the state all over the world as a great place to do business, with an exceptional quality of life. I just spent 10 years in NYC, and just the mention of North Carolina gets oohs and ahhs from everyone.
2) Who cares about GDP or ports? NC, as a state, tops Georgia and most other states, categorically down every line-item.
The Atlanta metro comprises an area the size of both Charlotte metro and Raleigh metro combined and then some.
Build dozens of new freeways?WTF?You know NOTHING of what you are talking about!The infrastructure in Georgia is one of the tops in the South.The reason N.C. has been building so many freeways in highways was because for a long time they were bad and compared to Georgia STILL not bad.Georgia has constantly been ranked with having one of the best highway systems in the country.
As far as the high speed corridor is concerned.Georgia DID apply but was not awarded this round.So its not a matter of not thinking about it.Ge you facts straight.
Georgia is number #3 in investment from China.And leads the Southeast with the exception of Florida.NOT Atlanta...but Georgia in which Atlanta is very intergral.Our ports alone are HUGE revenue generators and actually has grown the in fastest to become a large piece of Georgia's economy.So take your lame arguments somewhere else.
People in Atlanta really should get out and SEE whats going on in other parts of the state,because apparently reading about it is failing.
LOL, Atlanta the "standard", " has set a pretty high bar", yeah right. Crappy infrastructure falling apart, city government barely functioning, downtown parking lots, unsavory central 5-points downtown area, inadequate freeways for population, hideous, neglected street thoroughfares like Piedmont Rd, Cheshire Bridge, Ponce, Buford Hwy, no billboard control, crumbling sewers, no coordination of transit among counties, infighting between counties that can't work together. Yes, this is the standard cities should strive for:
Georgia:
North Carolina:
Georgia:
Look if you wanna be ignorant then fine.But how about some data to back up your so called claims?
City Government is hardly "barely functioning".City is going through budget crunches much like most major cities.Nothing new.Not excusable,but nothing new.
Infrastructure / Crumbling Sewers?"The city has spent $4.1 billion on a project to overhaul its system" is hardly falling apart.Especially when the projects like the Beltline,Peachtree Corridor,and Multi-modal (5points) station or in different stages of development. Multimodal gets Moving - Atlanta Business Chronicle
No cooperation between counties?What is ARC? Apparently you dont know.LOOK IT UP.What do you think the Beltline came fro or is about
Had you looked at the stats you would see that overall urban cogestion is considerably LOWER in Georgia than North Carolina.
Now I remember you i seen you post this like 20 times through other threads. I think you need to dig a little deeper before you tried to slam something....
Quote:
Originally Posted by architect77
LOL, Atlanta the "standard", " has set a pretty high bar", yeah right. Crappy infrastructure falling apart, city government barely functioning, downtown parking lots, unsavory central 5-points downtown area, inadequate freeways for population, hideous, neglected street thoroughfares like Piedmont Rd, Cheshire Bridge, Ponce, Buford Hwy, no billboard control, crumbling sewers, no coordination of transit among counties, infighting between counties that can't work together. Yes, this is the standard cities should strive for:
I havent lived in a medium city before.....New York for 13 years....Durham, NC for 3..and Atlanta for 10 years. I don't really count living in Durham though b/c I was younger and didn't know anything really. I have NEVER said Charlotte is a BAD city. I have said plenty of times that Charlotte is a beautiful place....but (for me) after living in Atlanta and New York, this city doesn't have any options for anything...That is my ONLY beef with Charlotte......Savannah, Raleigh, VA Beach, Nashville etc are all lWAY smaller than Charlotte, but have a lot more recreation and activities to do!! People here act as though Charlotte is the Lord's answer to NC...which it is NOT!!! Yes I am still learning the city but I have been here long enough to form an opinion. I just don't see how "FANTASTIC" Charlotte is the way you people here do!!! It is just a regular city with nothing special about it...point blank. Nothing motivates me think Charlotte is a great place to live. And that is just me....if you like Charlotte great for you...but I don't!!! I know people in Atlanta that don't like it there, but just live there b/c they have to or can't afford to move.....just because you live someplace doesn't mean you have to like it...ask all the NY'ers in Atlanta...ideally we would all like to live someplace we want to..but this is reality. Charlotte is an OK city (in my opinion)...but not the type of place I would stay and have a family at. No diversity, nothing to do...point blank..and that's a FACT.....ATL i will be back in 2011
Savannah, Raleigh, VA Beach, Nashville etc are all lWAY smaller than Charlotte, but have a lot more recreation and activities to do!!
Like what? Outside of geographical differences (e.g., the beach in Virginia Beach and Savannah), what are these huge advantages in recreation and activities that these cities have over Charlotte?
Quote:
Yes I am still learning the city but I have been here long enough to form an opinion.
There is a difference between opinions and facts. Earlier, you erroneously stated that Charlotte doesn't have any 24-hour Wal-Marts. That's not a matter of opinion; you were speaking factually, and you were wrong. You should own up to that.
Quote:
I just don't see how "FANTASTIC" Charlotte is the way you people here do!!! It is just a regular city with nothing special about it...point blank. Nothing motivates me think Charlotte is a great place to live. And that is just me....if you like Charlotte great for you...but I don't!!!
And that's fine, but it doesn't reflect well on you when you act like you know what you're talking about and you really don't. You said Charlotte doesn't have any 24-hour Wal-Marts and stated such matter-of-factly. That is inaccurate and it almost makes me wonder if you're purposely giving such misinformation because you have such a huge chip on your shoulder about not wanting to live here.
Quote:
No diversity, nothing to do...point blank..and that's a FACT.
That's not a fact. Not a fact, not a fact, not a fact. It's your unfounded opinion. Here in Charlotte, there are tons of annual events and festivals (like the Greek Festival and Blues & BBQ festival that took place this past weekend), major league professional sports, concerts, performing arts, recreation, and much more. No, it's not as much as what Atlanta and New York offer (the same can be said for the cities you listed earlier), but that doesn't mean that Charlotte offers "nothing to do." If you haven't availed yourself of all that this city offers, then there's no one to blame but yourself. Perhaps you haven't developed a social circle in Charlotte that would help you to take advantage of what the city offers?
Last edited by Poseidon704; 09-14-2010 at 09:50 PM..
The Atlanta metro comprises an area the size of both Charlotte metro and Raleigh metro combined and then some.
Build dozens of new freeways?WTF?You know NOTHING of what you are talking about!The infrastructure in Georgia is one of the tops in the South.The reason N.C. has been building so many freeways in highways was because for a long time they were bad and compared to Georgia STILL not bad.Georgia has constantly been ranked with having one of the best highway systems in the country.
As far as the high speed corridor is concerned.Georgia DID apply but was not awarded this round.So its not a matter of not thinking about it.Ge you facts straight.
Georgia is number #3 in investment from China.And leads the Southeast with the exception of Florida.NOT Atlanta...but Georgia in which Atlanta is very intergral.Our ports alone are HUGE revenue generators and actually has grown the in fastest to become a large piece of Georgia's economy.So take your lame arguments somewhere else.
People in Atlanta really should get out and SEE whats going on in other parts of the state,because apparently reading about it is failing.
Take the 28 or so counties comprising metro Atlanta and note total land area (sq. miles). Now transpose that same boundary to North Carolina's central piedmont region. You'll find over 6-7 million people within that boundary, more than metro Atlanta.
Who cares about deep water ports? And NC has two, thank you, Wilmington and Morehead City. Middle and South Georgia is nothing more than space between Florida and the rest of the country.
Georgia always wins awards for smoothest interstates, the breadth and system capability aren't considered. Atlanta's interstate system was fabulous back when 2.5 million people lived here. It's inadequate now in every category: 1) no alternative routes(to I-285) for cobb to gwinnett travel, GA400 just now being widened to Forsythe, no alternates to the 75/85 Downtown Connector, now clogged 90% of every day/nighttime, skinnier than normal 11ft. wide lanes on 85 north to accommodate HOV lane, horrible skinny txt on unlit overhead signage, no overhead signage at interstate junctions like most other states have, crumbling city streets that are now level with sidewalks from half-ass repavement jobs.
Georgia admitted dismissing rail connectivity as a priority, calling it technology of the past, a "choo-choo" train. They applied about a month before the money was awarded, submitting virtually nothing for Georgia's Rail Plan. Even now, someone working in that dept. couldn't even say when the first study would be completed, saying they didn't have a crystal ball to see into the future. And this is for a report to be finished, lol.
North Carolina won big because the entire project was shovel-ready. North Carolina had been proudly offering state-wide rail service for many years, way before high speed talk surfaced.
Georgia has a higher avg. wage per capita, however NC's economy, GDP, and operating budget surpass Georgia's. And while Georgia's population topped North Carolina's in 2000 by a few hundred thousand, the Census estimates that by 2030 North Carolina will again take the lead and become the 7th most populous state with 12.7 million residents.
Georgia doesn't even have overheads at interstate junctions:
NC has overheads on most roads:
Highways done right, no detail overlooked (Lighted signs, rounded corners)
NC is falling behind trying to keep 80,000 miles of roads in good condition. But go and look at all of the urban loops, and US routes now upgraded to interstate quality. Georgia should be now building a 3rd loop around Atlanta like Houston currently is building. Georgia will suffer long term due to the lack of highway planning/construction for the long-term future of north GA.
Seriously architect77, are you out of your mind? The last thing this place needs is a 3rd loop around Atlanta! There are plans to upgrade I-285 between 75 and 85 with managed lanes and transit.
In addition, GDOT has created a comprehensive managed lanes plan for the entire metro (the first in the country) which it is beginning to implement with the I-85 managed lanes in Gwinnett (construction now) and the I-75 reversible managed lanes in Cobb and Cherokee (construction 2011). They cannot widen the highways anymore here and transit needs to be more of a focus. I am from North Carolina (Charlotte actually) and Metro Atlanta has more upgraded/urban roads than any metro in North Carolina.
Also, please keep in mind that Charlotte and other metros in NC are 30-40 years behind Atlanta, so of course Charlotte, Raleigh, etc. are building more roads now. 30-40 years ago, Atlanta was building and widening highways too. Anyways, it's a fact that the state of GA has better roads than NC. I do think NC does a better job in terms of beautification, mowing the grass, wildflowers, etc. than GA though.
Also, if you haven't noticed, they have started using the larger font on new road signs similar to NC. Also, NCDOT just installed new signs along Charlotte area highways (mostly in Mecklenburg County) that are reflective and don't require lighting (just like GASP, Georgia!!).
Not to mention, most of the major highways in Georgia (75, 85, and 95) have or are currently being upgraded: major 75 widening and reconstruction from Macon to Florida and 95 widening along the coast. Basically 75 and 95 will be at the least 3 lanes each way throughout all of Georgia. Also, they recently finished widening 85 south of Atlanta and north of Atlanta from the Mall of GA/Buford exit to SC the bridges/interchanges have all been rebuilt to accommodate a future widening to 3-4 lanes each way.
In addition, the P3 Partnership is allowing the Multi-Modal station in Downtown Atlanta to be fast tracked and hopefully they can work out the track issues at the Howell Junction. I also believe GA could do more with rail transit in the state, but right now it only makes sense that NC gets more funds than GA since NC is further North... they must be connected to the Northeast HSR corridor before GA for it to make any sense here.
And who cares about deep water ports? The Savannah port is the fastest growing seaport and one of the busiest in the country (much larger and busier than any port in NC) and that certainly correlates to economic growth for Georgia and the Southeast. DUH!
I really wish you would do your research/homework before making ridiculous comments on here. A lot of this stuff is available online.
Now I normally don't say stuff like this, but why the heck don't you just move to North Carolina if it's so much better to you?
Last edited by mike7586; 09-14-2010 at 10:49 PM..
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