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Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by architect77
Now, let's look at some of your numbers just quoted, regardless of whether they're included in this radius:
1) You've rounded down one of NC's MSA's to about 1,000,000, when both are conservatively 1,500,000 or greater.
No I didn't and which one? I did not post anything in regards to metro populations outside of ATL or Charlotte in that post nor would I round down something as significant as 500,000 people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by architect77
2) But then, you rounded up growth projection for Atlanta's 95 miles radius to 2,000,000-2,500,000.
That 95.5 radius includes not only metro Atlanta but also Augusta, Athens, NW Alabama and parts of Tennessee. Georgia has grown by 2 million people since 2000, most of which has been in North Georgia...not just Atlanta.
Quote:
Originally Posted by architect77
Didn't Atlanta's 28 county 2000 population hit 5.3 million or so people? And while growth has been explosive, I don't believe by 2-2.5 million.
No, in 2000 the CSA of Atlanta was at 4.5 million. It passed the 5 million mark around 2003. The 2010 estimate for the CSA population Atlanta is approximately 5.9 million. The last official Census estimate for 2009 was 5,831,778.
4) I do know that Raleigh and Charlotte have grown significantly also, Raleigh-Cary MSA alone, (not including Durham-Chapel MSA), grew by 40% and currently ranks either 1st, 2nd, or 3rd fastest in the nation, even in the recession. (Note: in %, not absolute numbers).
5) My only point for these trivial statistics, is that NC's growth must be factored in, just like Atlanta's.
That may be, but it does not add up to the millions more that were been cited earlier by others. Both North Carolina and Georgia have been high growth states in the last 10 years but NC growth did not out pace Georgia growth. NC added approximately 1.3 million while Georgia added 1.6 million. 1.2 million of that growth was solely in Metro Atlanta. To break it down further, in Metro Atlanta's 8000 sq miles it gained as many residents as all of North Carolina did in it's 32,000 sq miles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by architect77
6) Georgia DID surpass North Carolina in population in 2000 for the first time in history by about 300,000 residents. The two states have remained neck and neck by a few hundred thousand ever since.
That is true, and they will continue to be neck and neck for a while to come.
Quote:
Originally Posted by architect77
The United States census's website has 2030 population estimates with both states still quite close, but NC narrowly taking the lead again:
Stop right there. 2030 projections should not be taken as fact, but as a possible occurrence. It assumes that everything will stay the same and it won't. Twenty years is too long of a period to know for certain, or even be close, to know what will happen. A lot can happen in that time.
For instance, if you went back to 1990 and said that Atlanta, Houston, and Dallass would all be hitting the 6 million mark by 2010 you would have been laughed out of town.
Go back just 10 years and tell someone that Las Vegas would be losing population and have a worse unemployment rate than Detroit you would have have been laughed out of town too.
Don't count your chickens before they hatch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by architect77
7) So your saying NC has about 9 million people and Georgia having about 10,000,000 isn't correct.
According to the Census Bureau, the population for both states were as follows:
NC: 9,380,884
GA: 9,829,211
So to be fair, NC population is about 9.5 million today plus or minus a few 10s of thousands, and GA is about 10.1 plus or minus given the high growth rate of both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by architect77
I only brought this up to point out that Atlanta counts a huge swath of North Georgia as metro Atlanta, and NC's smaller metros all touch each other already, so the only fair comparison is to match the exact same amount of land area.
No, Atlanta does not count that area as it's metro the Census bureau does. It's all based on commuting patterns and other economic/social ties. The reason why it is so huge is that there is no other city to compete against Atlanta's dominance in North Georgia. The majority of the population in North Georgia relies on Atlanta. Conversely, there is no single city in NC's Piedmont that carries the same weight as Atlanta in North Georgia and they are more independent thus creating smaller metros.
Quote:
Originally Posted by architect77
Atlanta is the clear winner for a big cosmopolitan city, period. It is in a different league altogether, no question.
This is true and it shouldn't even be up for debate. This is something I know that you realize and I'm not lumping you into that bunch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by architect77
But, apples for apples, North Carolina's piedmont is about as populated.
Thank you.
This is where we deviate as this sort of information is essentially irrelevant. Even if North Carolina's Piedmont has a higher population than Metro Atlanta (which in all likelihood it does not), it is an area 2 to 3 times larger than Metro Atlanta, and there is no single city that commands the full economic and social might of the area. Charlotte is the largest city in that area, but it is far from having the same affect on it's area economically and socially as Atlanta has on it's area. No matter the size.
The Urban Region statistic doesn't really have much to do with Charlotte. I said before, "Charlotte lies at the center," and speaks more about the piedmont of the Carolinas, quite heavily populated.
As I said earlier, draw an outline around the 28-35 counties used to get Atanta's 5-6 million people, and transpose that same outline on central North Carolina, and then compare the numbers.
Yes, small town North Carolina is hicksville, but Georgia is also, including much of metro Atanta- Forsyth, Rockdale, Kennesaw, whew!
I live downtown so really it just a matter of being factually correct even if it is room for subjectivity.
Kennsaw,Rockdale and Forsyth are hardly Hicksville. While having some of the highest property values,best schools,and highest incomes in the metro area and nation.You have no idea what you are talking about if you call those areas Hicksville like Gastonia.
Kennesaw-
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The city of Kennesaw was selected by Family Circle magazine as one of the nation's "10 best towns for families".[3] The award was aimed at identifying the best communities nationally that combine big-city opportunities with suburban charm, a blend of affordable housing, good jobs, top-rated public schools, wide-open spaces, and less stress
wiki
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The median income for a household in the city was $60,404 and the median income for a family was $67,778. Males had a median income of $45,253 versus $33,660 for females. The per capita income for the city was $24,757. About 3.1% of families and 4.5% of the population were below the poverty line, including 4.8% of those under age 18 and 12.5% of those age 65 or over
Rockdale County-
Home of the Georgia International Horse Park(site of Equestrian events during the Olympics
Dakota Fanning's Birthplace
The median income for a household in the county was $53,599, and the median income for a family was $60,065. Males had a median income of $41,087 versus $29,189 for females. The per capita income for the county was $22,300. About 5.70% of families and 8.20% of the population were below the poverty line, including 10.00% of those under age 18 and 7.70% of those age 65 or ove
Forsyth County-(the most funny out of all of those you mentioned)
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Forsyth County has been one of the fastest growing areas in the United States in terms of percentage of growth for several years during the 2000s.[4][5][6] The population growth was caused by the county's proximity to Atlanta and its appeal as a commuter area for people working in the Atlanta area. The influx of high earning professionals increased the average income to a point where Forbes.com named it as the 13th wealthiest county in the United States in terms of median household income for 2008. At near $84,872 it is also the wealthiest county in the state of Georgia, and the 20th wealthiest county in the nation.
Gastonia-
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The median income for a household in the city was $36,924, and the median income for a family was $44,873. Males had a median income of $33,215 versus $24,173 for females. The per capita income for the city was $19,592. 15.0% of the population and 11.8% of families were below the poverty line. 21.2% of those under the and 12.8% of those 65 and older were living below the poverty line.
Yes, small town North Carolina is hicksville, but Georgia is also, including much of metro Atanta- Forsyth, Rockdale, Kennesaw, whew!
Just shows you have not been to metro-Atlanta (especially Cobb County) recently to make that comment. Reduces your credibility. Come pay us a visit.
Look, all the stats are interesting. Charlotte is a nice town. Having said that, I live in the Atlanta metro and spend quite a bit of time in Charlotte for business. It does not compare to Atlanta, although I like some specific things about Charlotte better than some specific things about Atlanta.
Anyone with eyes can see that Charlotte is smaller and less dynamic. Once you get a few miles from the core of the city, Charlotte is much less developed and quite a bit more redneck/southern. Some people may argue that's a net positive, but it's fact.
If you compare all the attributes of a city from professional sports franchises to fortune 500 HQ's (not just an office, but the corp HQ) to colleges and universities to population and on and on....Atlanta is bigger and more developed as a city and a metro area. Again...that doesn't make Charlotte bad or not a nice place to live....but some of you need to please take off the blinders and open your eyes.
Having lived in Charlotte, the surrounding area was much more "hicksville" than Atlanta. The Atlanta suburbs are much nicer (most of the nice suburbs in Charlotte are in Charlotte city limits - example: South Charlotte/Ballantyne - with the exception of Huntersville, Cornelius, and Davidson, and a few parts of Weddington/Union County near Ballantyne/Rea Rd).
The rest is pretty much"hicksville" - Gastonia/most of Gaston County, Concord, Kannapolis (the NC Research Park hasn't done much yet as it's still pretty scary), Rock Hill, Monroe, Lincoln County, Lancaster/parts of Fort Mill/Indian Land, parts of Mooresville. You cannot compare these places to Marietta, Sandy Springs, Dunwoody, Roswell, Alpharetta, Duluth, Suwanee, Lawrenceville, Johns Creek, Smyrna/Vinings, Decatur, Peachtree City, and even Kennesaw, some parts of Cherokee County (Woodstock, Holly Springs, Town Lake are nice), Southern Forsyth/Cumming, Buford/Lake Lanier area.
I also remember seeing much more trailer parks (or trailers just thrown in the woods) in the Charlotte metro and in my travels to the suburbs around here in Atlanta I haven't seen anything like that yet. I'm sure it has to do with the fact that Atlanta metro is more developed than Charlotte. All you need to do is look at a map and you can see that.
[quote=neil0311;15934601]Just shows you have not been to metro-Atlanta (especially Cobb County) recently to make that comment. Reduces your credibility. Come pay us a visit.
Look, all the stats are interesting. Charlotte is a nice town. Having said that, I live in the Atlanta metro and spend quite a bit of time in Charlotte for business. It does not compare to Atlanta, although I like some specific things about Charlotte better than some specific things about Atlanta.
Anyone with eyes can see that Charlotte is smaller and less dynamic. Once you get a few miles from the core of the city, Charlotte is much less developed and quite a bit more redneck/southern. Some people may argue that's a net positive, but it's fact. If you compare all the attributes of a city from professional sports franchises to fortune 500 HQ's (not just an office, but the corp HQ) to colleges and universities to population and on and on....Atlanta is bigger and more developed as a city and a metro area. Again...that doesn't make Charlotte bad or not a nice place to live....but some of you need to please take off the blinders and open your eyes.[/QUOTE
Well about 10 years ago you never heard anyone from
Charlotte region argue or debating these.. The city has experienced some growth and now some of the residents feel the city now can compete.. The only competetion they have is for attracting new buisnesses, everything else is wash
.... Anyone with eyes can see that Charlotte is smaller and less dynamic. Once you get a few miles from the core of the city, Charlotte is much less developed and quite a bit more redneck/southern. Some people may argue that's a net positive, but it's fact. ... .
Are you saying "redneck" and "southern" are strictly equivalent?
But seriously, concerning the differences between Atlanta suburbs vs Charlotte suburbs, I don't know a whole lot about Charlotte's burbs but it's been said that growing up outside Atlanta probably isn't too much different than growing up in a DC suburb or maybe a Chicago suburb (Ok, I was the one who said it, but I think I'm on fairly solid ground there). But I just can't imagine that the same can be said of Charlotte in very many areas - not yet.
I've often marveled at the striking non-Southernness of the accents you hear walking into a random business in say an Alpharetta or a Lawrenceville or parts of East Cobb (and nowadays sometimes even in formerly more "redneck" Kennesaw). If you helicoptered someone blindfolded into a random Starbucks in Sandy Springs or Alpharetta without telling them where they were, I don't know how anyone could tell they weren't in central New Jersey or Ohio, etc.
Go look at your circle, augusta ain't in it.
Hicksville/rednecks are subjective terms.
Georgia is the greatest state on the planet! Go Nathan Deal! (Gays, we hate you!)
You are so completely irrational. First you compare Atlanta to Charlotte, now you are comparing the state of Georgia to the state of NC? I'm sorry, having grown up in Charlotte my whole life, Atlanta metro is a lot less "hicksville" as you put it than Charlotte (A LOT LESS). I even find the Raleigh/Durham area to be less "hicksville" than Charlotte!
It's a fact that Charlotte is less developed than the Atlanta metro, and the 100 mile radius thing is a bunch of crap. How many people actually commute between the Triad and Charlotte, or Columbia, SC and Charlotte, or Greenville, SC and Charlotte? Don't you see how ridiculous that is?
However... I will say, and this is my opinion, that I think NC as a state has become more progressive than Georgia.
Having lived in Charlotte, the surrounding area was much more "hicksville" than Atlanta. The Atlanta suburbs are much nicer (most of the nice suburbs in Charlotte are in Charlotte city limits - example: South Charlotte/Ballantyne - with the exception of Huntersville, Cornelius, and Davidson, and a few parts of Weddington/Union County near Ballantyne/Rea Rd).
The rest is pretty much"hicksville" - Gastonia/most of Gaston County, Concord, Kannapolis (the NC Research Park hasn't done much yet as it's still pretty scary), Rock Hill, Monroe, Lincoln County, Lancaster/parts of Fort Mill/Indian Land, parts of Mooresville. You cannot compare these places to Marietta, Sandy Springs, Dunwoody, Roswell, Alpharetta, Duluth, Suwanee, Lawrenceville, Johns Creek, Smyrna/Vinings, Decatur, Peachtree City, and even Kennesaw, some parts of Cherokee County (Woodstock, Holly Springs, Town Lake are nice), Southern Forsyth/Cumming, Buford/Lake Lanier area.
I also remember seeing much more trailer parks (or trailers just thrown in the woods) in the Charlotte metro and in my travels to the suburbs around here in Atlanta I haven't seen anything like that yet. I'm sure it has to do with the fact that Atlanta metro is more developed than Charlotte. All you need to do is look at a map and you can see that.
That goes w/o saying! I think Charlotte itself is okay, but right now, I wouldn't dare venture too far from Mecklenburg County! I know the Charlotte region is still growing, however, there are still too many remote areas around the metro region that I wish was more developed! It'll grow up in time!
However... I will say, and this is my opinion, that I think NC as a state has become more progressive than Georgia.
Well said. I agree with this 100%.
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