Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Peach, I sympathize with your dismay. I think some responses on this thread are overlooking the fact that teaching is a relatively poorly paid profession, compared with other fields requiring a college degree. People elect to go into teaching because they consider it a worthy and rewarding vocation and because, although the pay is not great, teachers traditionally have very good job security and stability.
When people point out that private sector workers are suffering cutbacks and layoffs, worse in many cases than what teachers face, and suggest you shouldn't complain, I think they're overlooking that you didn't choose a career with the private sector's higher levels of risk and reward. Yes, the economy is suffering and teachers have to share the pain with everyone else, but I do find it understandable that public school teachers might be a little more shocked than private sector workers, to be hit with cutbacks.
Despite teachers' dismay over the pay cuts and furlough days, I hope parents and students will find the teachers as hard-working and dedicated as ever, when the new school year starts this month. Sometimes we the public don't seem to fully appreciate how much we benefit from most teachers' sense of vocation.
When people point out that private sector workers are suffering cutbacks and layoffs, worse in many cases than what teachers face, and suggest you shouldn't complain, I think they're overlooking that you didn't choose a career with the private sector's higher levels of risk and reward. Yes, the economy is suffering and teachers have to share the pain with everyone else, but I do find it understandable that public school teachers might be a little more shocked than private sector workers, to be hit with cutbacks.
Despite teachers' dismay over the pay cuts and furlough days, I hope parents and students will find the teachers as hard-working and dedicated as ever, when the new school year starts this month. Sometimes we the public don't seem to fully appreciate how much we benefit from most teachers' sense of vocation.
Speaking for myself, and with a sister who taught special ed in public schools for 15 years (in Gwinnett County) before moving to teach in private schools, I understand and appreciate the level of dedication of our teachers. That appreciation is expressed through the fact that I have always sent and plan to continue to send my children to public schools. Compensation for teachers is something that has been debated for years, and in some cases teachers don't receive what they should in terms of compensation. They also receive many benefits that private sector employees don't, so it's a two way street.
In states where unions dominate government employees, landing a government job can be a lifetime guarantee of employment, with lax work rules and mediocrity enforced via union contract. Firing bad employees can be tough, and waste is usually the rule as well.
In states like Georgia where unions do not have a stranglehold on taxpayers, state and municipal employees get some of the benefits of working for the government, but as I made the point in my previous post, they have to be aware that state and county budgets are volatile in bad economic times, and this recession is more extreme than usual. When these kinds of times hit us, the only two choices are to cut spending or to raise taxes. Raising taxes in recession is a prescription for more recession, so cutting spending is what Georgia has done, deeply and across the board.
It's unfortunate that education cannot be spared, although some counties are finding ways to fill the gap for their teachers. For those teachers who are affected, no one is happy about it, but taking a 3 day furlough is still better than losing your job. Look at the State Patrol. They are being asked to take 1 to 2 days PER MONTH....and that will mean fewer troopers, and troopers make a tiny salary when you compare the risk. That fact doesn't make it better for teachers, but shows the relative impact.
Speaking for myself, and with a sister who taught special ed in public schools for 15 years (in Gwinnett County) before moving to teach in private schools, I understand and appreciate the level of dedication of our teachers. That appreciation is expressed through the fact that I have always sent and plan to continue to send my children to public schools. Compensation for teachers is something that has been debated for years, and in some cases teachers don't receive what they should in terms of compensation. They also receive many benefits that private sector employees don't, so it's a two way street.
In states where unions dominate government employees, landing a government job can be a lifetime guarantee of employment, with lax work rules and mediocrity enforced via union contract. Firing bad employees can be tough, and waste is usually the rule as well.
In states like Georgia where unions do not have a stranglehold on taxpayers, state and municipal employees get some of the benefits of working for the government, but as I made the point in my previous post, they have to be aware that state and county budgets are volatile in bad economic times, and this recession is more extreme than usual. When these kinds of times hit us, the only two choices are to cut spending or to raise taxes. Raising taxes in recession is a prescription for more recession, so cutting spending is what Georgia has done, deeply and across the board.
It's unfortunate that education cannot be spared, although some counties are finding ways to fill the gap for their teachers. For those teachers who are affected, no one is happy about it, but taking a 3 day furlough is still better than losing your job. Look at the State Patrol. They are being asked to take 1 to 2 days PER MONTH....and that will mean fewer troopers, and troopers make a tiny salary when you compare the risk. That fact doesn't make it better for teachers, but shows the relative impact.
Yes, I saw that on the news. And actually, there will be more furlough days for us in the coming months...for the state troopers though, are their furlough days until the fiscal year 2009 ends or is it on going? Just curious.
Oh, and let's also keep in the mind the amount of money that comes out of our pockets for our students' success...even more than a paycut or furlough day in some cases.
Most of us feel for teachers right now but comments like the one below don't help the cause at all. How tacky is it to spring it on teachers? Is that really the attitude teachers have, come on. Teachers aren't the only one facing furlough's, other state employees are too. In the real world most people have these things sprung on them at the last moment. Its nice if you have months of notice but the reality is it is very rare when you work for someone else that you do receive such notice.
300-700 month for 1 day of furlough?? That translates into a salary of approx $6,000-14,000 month or $72,000-168,000/yr. Wouldn't need to be quite living to paycheck to paycheck on that salary but I am sure I am missing something as that sounds really high for teachers pay from what little I know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Atlanta Peach
Yes, but still...come on...some people live paycheck to paycheck and 300-700 a month (over a three month period) is drastic. I can be grateful to have a job, but at the same time, this should not have been sprung on us at the last minute...
Anyhow, thanks for all responses...yes, I am grateful for a job, I am not saying I'm not. But heck, how tacky is it to spring this on us all of a sudden? THAT'A garbage, for real. I don't care what ANYONE says.
Yes, but still...come on...some people live paycheck to paycheck and 300-700 a month (over a three month period) is drastic. I can be grateful to have a job, but at the same time, this should not have been sprung on us at the last minute...I'm sorry. Plus, more furlough days will be coming. At least others knew in ADVANCE it was coming. I don't mind a reduction in pay, just spread it out over my contract period and not in chunks by the end of the fiscal year. That's all I'm saying.
And no, to the poster that said something about going to class and whining about pay...WTF? What's that all about?
Anyhow, thanks for all responses...yes, I am grateful for a job, I am not saying I'm not. But heck, how tacky is it to spring this on us all of a sudden? THAT'A garbage, for real. I don't care what ANYONE says.
It's no one's fault but your own if you're living paycheck to paycheck. If you're living paycheck to paycheck, you're living beyond your means because you should build in savings for unexpected events.
People in the private sector are getting pay cuts (i.e., no time off) and getting laid off outright. I'm tired of hearing griping from teachers about three measly furlough days.
Just to put it in perspective, if you're a teacher making 50K/year and many make less, then you will lose about $750 in total, before taxes. Your net loss will be less by probably around 30%, so your net loss will be around $500.
While that's not zero, it's not exactly a huge sum. I will not get any increase this year as my company has frozen salaries, and they have reduced some benefits. If you ask many public and private sector employees, they will tell you that they have been impacted by at least $500 in lost wages or benefits.
Honestly, I'm more upset about the increased class size and the reduction/elimination of things like field trips, professional development opportunities, etc.
I really don't think we have it bad in GA. My sister is a reading interventionist in Florida. She does the same work as a teacher, and up until 2 weeks ago, was on the same salary scale making mid-30's. The powers that be in her district decided they didn't need as many interventionists...and in one board vote, she lost her job and is now on the substitute teacher list--making $90 a day, IF she's called in to sub.
My mother works in the central office in the same district and she told me that the school district hasn't given a step increase since 2007, and the going rate for health insurance in the district is ~$500 month...and it's the same insurance I'm paying $225 for up here.
As far as I'm concerned...while I took a 2% pay cut and while some teachers in GA are furloughed 3 days...we're still sitting pretty.
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
11,334 posts, read 26,089,277 times
Reputation: 3995
Quote:
Originally Posted by techugagrad
It's no one's fault but your own if you're living paycheck to paycheck. If you're living paycheck to paycheck, you're living beyond your means because you should build in savings for unexpected events.
With all due respect, I've known a fair number of people in that situation due to circumstances beyond their control ... myself included. And that is in spite of having sizable nest eggs and/or severence packages to fall back on before things started going sour.
Savings is nice for one or perhaps two small events (each maybe a few months in length) or one fairly long one (say 12 months or longer).
Try getting hit multiple times with unemployment, though, with no time to rebuild your safety net in between, or going through even a "typical" unemployment stint in the current economic climate. The average time to find work nationally is on the order of 24.5 WEEKS right now, which is almost six months, and if a person owns a house and has to move to another city to find work, all of a sudden you have MUCH higher living expenses to deal with on top of the money lost during the period one was without work.
It isn't as simple to stay above water (and "be responsible") as some people make it out to be. We still haven't recovered from my 2002 and 2003 unemployment stints, for example, and if either I or my wife were to be laid off right not we'd have very little room to work with.
I agree that there are people living paycheck to paycheck due to poor decisions, but painting everyone in that situation with a broad brush really gets under my skin because I'm very close to that right now in spite of my best efforts, and I know at least a dozen families who've been in similar situations.
Sometimes it's all you can do to simply remain solvent. I know a few folks who couldn't even manage that. And they went into the situation fairly well prepared as far as I could tell.
Quote:
People in the private sector are getting pay cuts (i.e., no time off) and getting laid off outright. I'm tired of hearing griping from teachers about three measly furlough days.
I can understand it, though, even though I've been through much worse myself. I would have loved a pay cut in place of my two layoffs and my contract termination, for example. But even a pay cut can hurt.
Last edited by rcsteiner; 08-02-2009 at 08:31 PM..
It's no one's fault but your own if you're living paycheck to paycheck. If you're living paycheck to paycheck, you're living beyond your means because you should build in savings for unexpected events.
People in the private sector are getting pay cuts (i.e., no time off) and getting laid off outright. I'm tired of hearing griping from teachers about three measly furlough days.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but in no way am I living beyond my means. Everyone doesn't have a substantial amount to put away in savings; I do save. You have to remember that there are multiple uncontrollable deductions that already come out of some people's paychecks through no fault of their own. Just because you live paycheck to paycheck (and a very large amount of people do if you are running your household and taking care of a family) does not mean you are living beyond your means. You don't know how I'm living.
And no one cares if you're tired of hearing from teachers about three (actually seven) measly furlough days. You are going to hear it as long as you open your ears to it, and in this case, if you didn't want to hear it, you shouldn't have responded to this post nor read it.
300-700 month for 1 day of furlough?? That translates into a salary of approx $6,000-14,000 month or $72,000-168,000/yr. Wouldn't need to be quite living to paycheck to paycheck on that salary but I am sure I am missing something as that sounds really high for teachers pay from what little I know.
The amount depends on years of experience. If you are making around 52,000, your daily rate of pay is around 270 or 290 per day. So in three months, you would see 270 or 290 come out of your check for 3 months. Hell if I were getting paid $72,000 to $168,000 a year there would be no complaints from me!
If you are making around 52,000, your daily rate of pay is around 270 or 290 per day. So in three months, you would see 270 or 290 come out of your check for 3 months.
Maybe I'm missing something here....I thought it was 3 furlough days, but even at the higher number of 7, the math just doesn't add up somewhere.
Teachers work 190 days per year as per the reporting and the fact that systems needed an exemption from the state to furlough. If you make $52K/yr, then that equates to $179/day (no idea how you are getting "270 to 290 per day" on a 52K salary). 7 days would be roughly $1255 gross. When you adjust for taxes, the net impact is around $875. Again, not zero, but not a huge amount, and again better than unemployment.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
