More on Cobb County light rail system proposal (Atlanta, Marietta: sales, employment)
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Like the article said, congestion relief along US 41 was needed back in 1994. Now Cobb Pkwy is declining and an entire generation of Cobb County residents has grown up commuting in automobiles and are not accustomed to fixed-rail transit. Due to urban sprawl, employment centers are not particularly centralized. If Cobb County was forward thinking they could have received a MARTA line 30 years ago (that strange NW spur was actually built to go into Cobb County not stop in the projects of Atlanta). However Cobb and Gwinnett of course were not forward thinking and they now suffer from being two of the largest counties in GA having explosive development with no comprehensive plan and no effective mass transit. Now that these 1980s-90s suburbs are losing their cache Cobb has no recourse but to reach back to systems that should have been implemented BEFORE the development even started!
I was coming to write a post about Cobb County transit. Yesterday, I took public transportation for the first time since movng here to GA. I have to say first off the reason why is took so long was due to the fact when I moved here I lived in Lovejoy and there was NO public transport and coming from Brooklyn, NY...that was some getting used to.
I took my son on the route that he would take to work yesterday. I took the 20 via S. Cobb drive to the Marietta center and then transferred to the 40 via Bells Ferry. I have to say that I loved taking the bus. Being from NYC, I am SO used to the transit system. The part that is the kicker is the WAIT for the bus. Now I have been waitng in NYC for some buses and trains for a long time. But the transport in NYC is not every hour like it is here. That was the worse part of the expereince.
Now, my question is this, I need to save money...I work for a mojor bank and I operate in the RED every month. Not due to extra bills but due to the fact that I dont make enough and I had to get a new car. I again need to save money...should I be looking at the public transport system as that means? Working in Kennesaw and taking that same 40, will leave me right at work. I believe that it will save some funds. Now any of you do this or even the park and ride method. Tell me if it saves you money!
Like the article said, congestion relief along US 41 was needed back in 1994. Now Cobb Pkwy is declining and an entire generation of Cobb County residents has grown up commuting in automobiles and are not accustomed to fixed-rail transit. Due to urban sprawl, employment centers are not particularly centralized. If Cobb County was forward thinking they could have received a MARTA line 30 years ago (that strange NW spur was actually built to go into Cobb County not stop in the projects of Atlanta). However Cobb and Gwinnett of course were not forward thinking and they now suffer from being two of the largest counties in GA having explosive development with no comprehensive plan and no effective mass transit. Now that these 1980s-90s suburbs are losing their cache Cobb has no recourse but to reach back to systems that should have been implemented BEFORE the development even started!
There is something to be said about building when things are appropriate. Cobb County had around 200,000 people back in the 70s. That would be like Cherokee county building a MARTA spur right now. Cobb County could have gone bankrupt and been a lot worse off right now if they built heavy rail in the 70s/80s. I could see it making sense that Cumberland would have done that in the 80s, much like if Cherokee county had one commuter rail station in Canton or Woodstock. However, I don't think that it would have made sense to spend the money to connect any other part of Cobb County way back then. Things are much different now.
Furthermore, I can understand why Cobb wouldn't want to connect to the projects in the 80s. If it had been a spur from Lindbergh station through Brookwood, Cobb county may have gone for a connection to Cumberland at that time. Now that the area around Bankhead is transforming, Cobb County will probably be much more willing to connect in, though it would probably be through a light rail spur from the beltline to start with then replacing it with heavy rail in the future. The trick with heavy rail is how to get through Vinings without being fought on the extra track(s) required. It may require tunneling extra tracks under the Paces Ferry crossing, perhaps leaving two tracks above ground for historic reasons. That would be very expensive.
By the way, did anyone hear about the option being discussed to replace MARTA with a new system that merges CCT, GCT and MARTA? I saw that mentioned in an article somewhere but can't remember where.
Last edited by netdragon; 06-21-2010 at 10:26 PM..
Metro Atlanta needs ONE major transportation system..that will be able to meet the needs of the entire area....Believe it or not...what is good for the goose is good for the gander...meaning anything to help unify metro atlanta would be good for EVERYONE
There is something to be said about building when things are appropriate. Cobb County had around 200,000 people back in the 70s. That would be like Cherokee county building a MARTA spur right now. Cobb County could have gone bankrupt and been a lot worse off right now if they built heavy rail in the 70s/80s. I could see it making sense that Cumberland would have done that in the 80s, much like if Cherokee county had one commuter rail station in Canton or Woodstock. However, I don't think that it would have made sense to spend the money to connect any other part of Cobb County way back then. Things are much different now.
Furthermore, I can understand why Cobb wouldn't want to connect to the projects in the 80s. If it had been a spur from Lindbergh station through Brookwood, Cobb county may have gone for a connection to Cumberland at that time. Now that the area around Bankhead is transforming, Cobb County will probably be much more willing to connect in, though it would probably be through a light rail spur from the beltline to start with then replacing it with heavy rail in the future. The trick with heavy rail is how to get through Vinings without being fought on the extra track(s) required. It may require tunneling extra tracks under the Paces Ferry crossing, perhaps leaving two tracks above ground for historic reasons. That would be very expensive.
The original (1960s) plan of MARTA did not have Cobb County connecting with the projects. It sent a line up Northside Drive through Vinings and into Marietta. Unless these were projects back in the 1960s, then I don't see what the big deal is/was in that respect. I think it is very obvious that it wasn't the money that drove people to reject the MARTA line. Until the state decides to make an investment in regional transit, metro Atlanta will never get decent, well-functioning, unified public transit. Coming from the Northeast and even living in Colorado for 3 years and seeing what plans they finally pushed through for mass transit, Georgia's efforts are simply pathetic.
metro Atlanta will never get decent, well-functioning, unified public transit.
So MARTA is just an electric train set?
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Originally Posted by wxjay
Coming from the Northeast and even living in Colorado for 3 years and seeing what plans they finally pushed through for mass transit, Georgia's efforts are simply pathetic.
This is where you make your mistake. Georgia is not the northeast or Colorado. If transit was so lacking that a majority of people wanted it in and didn't have it, they would be demanding it. Fact is they aren't. You may dislike that fact, but there is nothing pathetic about it.
I'm in the northeast all this week. I miss the weather, the sports, the people, the food, but not missing many other things. Rode transit very infrequently here....not missing it in Atlanta. Even that being said, why do you discount MARTA so much? It's actually a pretty extensive rail system.
This is where you make your mistake. Georgia is not the northeast or Colorado. If transit was so lacking that a majority of people wanted it in and didn't have it, they would be demanding it. Fact is they aren't. You may dislike that fact, but there is nothing pathetic about it.
Honestly, I think this supposed "fact" deserves further scrutiny. You really think that people don't want a better transit system in the Atlanta metro? Really??? I bet if you polled this question year over year over the last decade or so, you'd see increasing numbers of people--possibly a majority--who think the transit here is underdeveloped.
Now, as soon as this discussion gets framed as, "your taxes will have to increase," OF COURSE people are going to say no to whatever you put in front of them. People are irate left and right about what's happening to schools now, but no politicians have the guts to tell people what they need to hear: if you want services, you gotta pay for them.
I'd bet that in formal polls, ATLliens would claim BOTH of the following, despite the obvious contradiction: "we need better transit" and "my taxes are too high."
This is where you make your mistake. Georgia is not the northeast or Colorado. If transit was so lacking that a majority of people wanted it in and didn't have it, they would be demanding it. Fact is they aren't. You may dislike that fact, but there is nothing pathetic about it.
Uhh.. New metro Atlantans are flipping out over not having transit when it has been talked about for over a decade. - jealous of the N-S line and wanting better ways to get to employment centers. Businesses are pushing hard for rail. It's just hard for an average citizen to argue against the bs argument "no funding exists". That argument is bull because it only works for, I don't know, 10 years. It's starting to get old that the state and counties aren't proactive enough to figure out how to come up with funding in an entire decade.
Georgia used corporate welfare to lure businesses, but at some point these businesses have to pay up and start funding transit. Many are complaining that transit is needed. Few are ponying up.
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Originally Posted by K-SawDude
Now, as soon as this discussion gets framed as, "your taxes will have to increase," OF COURSE people are going to say no to whatever you put in front of them. People are irate left and right about what's happening to schools now, but no politicians have the guts to tell people what they need to hear: if you want services, you gotta pay for them.
And that's the problem with conservatives. They cut taxes too much and then the governments can't pay for services. Then things go into decay or totally automobile-dependent, wasting resources. In another era, hopefully transit and good schools aren't considered optional.
Last edited by netdragon; 06-25-2010 at 05:15 AM..
I said "metro Atlanta", which encompasses many more counties than Fulton and Dekalb. You honestly want to say that MARTA is accessible and usable for the bulk of commuters into major employment centers in metro Atlanta?
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This is where you make your mistake. Georgia is not the northeast or Colorado. If transit was so lacking that a majority of people wanted it in and didn't have it, they would be demanding it. Fact is they aren't. You may dislike that fact, but there is nothing pathetic about it.
Transit is a major issue in this state, like it or not. This is a major issue in the upcoming 2010 election and also for 2012 I suspect with the supposed referendum coming up. People ARE demanding new transit, as other posters have stated. The fact that a trial poll in Gwinnett last year showed a nearly 20 point shift from the opposition to MARTA over a decade ago is a sign of changing attitudes. Secondly, as you are aware, money is the issue, both in demanding transit and also in building it. When gas returns north of $3.00 a gallon or even higher if cap and trade legislation passes, or when the urban areas finally realize they can gain a ton of revenue for charging more than $1.00 per hour in parking, then there will be changes in people's attitude toward the issue.
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I'm in the northeast all this week. I miss the weather, the sports, the people, the food, but not missing many other things. Rode transit very infrequently here....not missing it in Atlanta. Even that being said, why do you discount MARTA so much? It's actually a pretty extensive rail system.
I am not totally bashing MARTA - it works where it exists, to a point. I discount it as an effective means of transportations for the nearly 1 million people or so that use major job centers in Dekalb and Fulton Counties and travel from Gwinnett, Rockdale, Fayette, and Cherokee County to get to work. I also question MARTA's effectiveness and staying power when it relies on 1% of sales tax revenues from 2 counties yet has the state government, which contributes $0 to it, tell it what it can and cannot use the money for.
And I am tired of the "I don't use it, so I don't care about it" attitude. I don't use the public schools in my neighborhood (I do not have children). Do I care whether or not they are functioning and good schools? Of course I do because I care about having well-educated future citizens to better this country. Have I ever visited state parks outside of Atlanta? No, but I am glad to support them because their existence makes a better environment and lifestyle for all citizens of Georgia and also help to increase tourism and also improve the image of Georgia among visitors.
There is a community benefit that goes along with things you don't use personally that people are too quick to discount.
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