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Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane
I'm not comparing the systems themselves. Obviously there's a big difference between heavy rail and commuter rail. But what I am comparing is two people who lives 25 miles out from downtown in their respective cities. If I live 25 miles from downtown Chicago, I have the option of taking a short drive to a nearby Metra station and taking the rest of the way. But if I'm in Atlanta living out in Alpharetta, then my drive to the nearest MARTA is a lot longer. Do I drive halfway and then take MARTA or do I jsut drive the whole way. As BobKovacs pointed out earlier, some people may not want to deal with the hassle of having to switch modes of transportation half way. I don't know how many people feel that way in Alpharetta which is one of the reasons I started this thread, to find out whether people farther out really use MARTA or just decide to drive the whole way and, if so, why.
That's the point Galounger was getting at.
Let's use you as an example. If say, Metra did not exist, how far away is the closest CTA station to your house? How often would you take the train as oppossed to driving all the way to work in such a situation?
I don't know where the OP heard that Marta wasn't used very much but you can add me to the group that says otherwise. I use Marta all the time and the trains stay full consistantly until the wee hours of the night. Rush hour trains can be down right crowded (although not so crowded that you feel like cattle like in NYC or Tokyo).
I don't know how many people feel that way in Alpharetta which is one of the reasons I started this thread, to find out whether people farther out really use MARTA or just decide to drive the whole way and, if so, why.
Obviously, quite a few do. The parking decks at North Springs fill up early every weekday. That could deter a few people right there that may be running late.
Marta trains arent as crowded during rush hours as people think, alot of people on the N/S Lines crowd the 1rst 3 cars because they have a perception they are safer up front, but the last 3 cars normally are full but no one is standing. The East/West line might be the exception where just about every car is packed during rush hour, but manily due to the trains running 10 mins apart is why they even get that crowded. If they ran 5 mins apart like NYC/DC it wouldnt be that crowded.
But the main reason people dont utilize Marta to its fullest is that Marta can sometimes just plain suck!!! If a train is supposed to leave @ 8am that train will leave sit there and leave 3-4 mins late, those 3-4 mins are just enough for you to miss your connection at 5 pts and then you wait 12 minutes for another train, just to get to the station and see your bus pull off in your face even though the driver see you right in front of the bus. People dont forget that, especially in the evening when trains are 20 mins apart and buses are 45 mins apart.
Apparently the things you've said in this thread have implied a great deal, or several different people (it certainly isn't just the two you singled out) wouldn't be disagreeing with you. I guess you think the communication problem is everyone else - not you.
First you said that you were going on what several people online have told you. Now you say you've talked to people who have used MARTA. Which is it?
Whichever it may be, the facts are in the statistics. There is really no arguing them...but continue if you wish. I just can't understand why someone would ask a question, then argue with the answers he gets.
Yes, the communication problem is with you. The fact that you inferred something from what I said says more about you than it does about me. Let's look at my original statement.
"But imagine if you lived in Alpharetta and worked downtown close to a train station. Would you still skip the train and go the whole way by car?"
Where do I ever imply that people who live in Alpharetta don't bother with MARTA? It seems to me that you're just being defensive, interpreting my question as a criticism of MARTA and the people in Alpharetta when that isn't the case.
Second, why do you assume that the people I talked to online don't use MARTA? Are those two mutually exclusive? Of course not. You and several others have said plenty of people use MARTA. Fine. But obviously there are people who disagree. Just look at SAAN's post above. You also say that the facts are in the statistics and that there's no arguing them. But as JPD pointed out earlier, the stats are misleading.
I think your analysis of the numbers is off. You have to take into consideration that the vast majority of riders get on the bus or train more than once per day (once to go wherever they're going, and once to return). Some riders make more than two rides per day.
500,000 individual people do not ride MARTA per day. 500,000 trips are taken on MARTA per day.
As to your last question as to why someone would ask a question and then argue with the answers he gets, it makes perfect sense if one person's answers contradicts another's, which is exactly what we've seen in this thread. I don't have a problem admitting when I'm wrong or misinformed. What I have a problem is people who get defensive when I ask a legitimate question, attach meaning to my words that isn't there, and then act like their opinion is fact, when really all it is just an opinion.
Yes, the communication problem is with you. The fact that you inferred something from what I said says more about you than it does about me. Let's look at my original statement.
"But imagine if you lived in Alpharetta and worked downtown close to a train station. Would you still skip the train and go the whole way by car?"
Where do I ever imply that people who live in Alpharetta don't bother with MARTA? It seems to me that you're just being defensive, interpreting my question as a criticism of MARTA and the people in Alpharetta when that isn't the case.
Second, why do you assume that the people I talked to online don't use MARTA? Are those two mutually exclusive? Of course not. You and several others have said plenty of people use MARTA. Fine. But obviously there are people who disagree. Just look at SAAN's post above. You also say that the facts are in the statistics and that there's no arguing them. But as JPD pointed out earlier, the stats are misleading.
I think your analysis of the numbers is off. You have to take into consideration that the vast majority of riders get on the bus or train more than once per day (once to go wherever they're going, and once to return). Some riders make more than two rides per day.
500,000 individual people do not ride MARTA per day. 500,000 trips are taken on MARTA per day.
As to your last question as to why someone would ask a question and then argue with the answers he gets, it makes perfect sense if one person's answers contradicts another's, which is exactly what we've seen in this thread. I don't have a problem admitting when I'm wrong or misinformed. What I have a problem is people who get defensive when I ask a legitimate question, attach meaning to my words that isn't there, and then act like their opinion is fact, when really all it is just an opinion.
You simply don't believe what actual residents are telling you...no one is being defensive - it's you. Everyone else is not the problem - it's you. You've implied your views throughout this thread, and now your denying it? At least stand up for what you think...no matter how wrong you are...or, concede to the truth. Either way is better than trying to deny it.
Check all of the comments following yours...I'm certainly not the only one that you're at odds with on this subject. You are arguing a silly point with several very knowledgable Atlantans.
Marta trains arent as crowded during rush hours as people think, alot of people on the N/S Lines crowd the 1rst 3 cars because they have a perception they are safer up front, but the last 3 cars normally are full but no one is standing. The East/West line might be the exception where just about every car is packed during rush hour, but manily due to the trains running 10 mins apart is why they even get that crowded. If they ran 5 mins apart like NYC/DC it wouldnt be that crowded.
But the main reason people dont utilize Marta to its fullest is that Marta can sometimes just plain suck!!! If a train is supposed to leave @ 8am that train will leave sit there and leave 3-4 mins late, those 3-4 mins are just enough for you to miss your connection at 5 pts and then you wait 12 minutes for another train, just to get to the station and see your bus pull off in your face even though the driver see you right in front of the bus. People dont forget that, especially in the evening when trains are 20 mins apart and buses are 45 mins apart.
I dont know about that when they were running 5 to 7 mins they would get crowded i take the trains everyday and they stay crowded in the mornings and around 5oclock.. . even the east and west line.. but now they get crazy crowded because after 9 there is a 20 min wait on trains... moring time its 10 mins... I cant speak on the buses, I dont do the bus!!!
Yes, the communication problem is with you. The fact that you inferred something from what I said says more about you than it does about me. Let's look at my original statement.
"But imagine if you lived in Alpharetta and worked downtown close to a train station. Would you still skip the train and go the whole way by car?"
Where do I ever imply that people who live in Alpharetta don't bother with MARTA? It seems to me that you're just being defensive, interpreting my question as a criticism of MARTA and the people in Alpharetta when that isn't the case.
Second, why do you assume that the people I talked to online don't use MARTA? Are those two mutually exclusive? Of course not. You and several others have said plenty of people use MARTA. Fine. But obviously there are people who disagree. Just look at SAAN's post above. You also say that the facts are in the statistics and that there's no arguing them. But as JPD pointed out earlier, the stats are misleading.
I think your analysis of the numbers is off. You have to take into consideration that the vast majority of riders get on the bus or train more than once per day (once to go wherever they're going, and once to return). Some riders make more than two rides per day.
500,000 individual people do not ride MARTA per day. 500,000 trips are taken on MARTA per day.
As to your last question as to why someone would ask a question and then argue with the answers he gets, it makes perfect sense if one person's answers contradicts another's, which is exactly what we've seen in this thread. I don't have a problem admitting when I'm wrong or misinformed. What I have a problem is people who get defensive when I ask a legitimate question, attach meaning to my words that isn't there, and then act like their opinion is fact, when really all it is just an opinion.
Well based on the method your using DC doesnt have 900,000 people riding the trains 900,000 trips are made which can be done by the same people 3 or 4 times a day... So who knows how many people are actually using the trains. No one may never know.... Like Deacon J said quote: I just can't understand why someone would ask a question, then argue with the answers he gets.
As a MARTA rider, I want to reiterate what others have said and add a few new things.
Yes, the MARTA doesn't reach very far out into the suburbs. I don't know many folks from Cobb county that take the MARTA. But the MARTA is very good at what its good at, and that is inter-city (ITP) travel to major places. Its great for folks who work downtown or go to georgia tech or georgia state. Its great for folks who attend thrashers, falcons, or hawks games. I actually find it amazing how many people use it for thrashers games. Trains are always packed, and very few people go to thrashers games. The south just hates hockey, which is sad.
Its also good for the Airport. Quick (and easy) ride from anywhere on the system.
The MARTA is not good for certain things, and I'll use a comparison to DC here. I lived in DC for a few months for an internship. When people in DC go out to dinner, out to the bars, etc, they use the Metro. With the exception of Georgetown, the Metro goes almost everywhere you would want to go. I don't feel (and this is my opinion, based on where I go) the MARTA does not do as good of a job with this. Yes, the MARTA goes to midtown, where there are alot of restaurants, bars, etc. It goes to "buckhead", but not exactly the part of buckhead where people eat and drink (that area is about a mile south of the buckhead station). It doesnt go to the highlands. I think when the beltline is up and running, we will have a pretty interesting public transit system in the city. Should be fun. (Yes, I know its a ways out. Im optimistic).
I'll probably ruffle some feathers with this, but Atlanta, unlike DC, Boston, New York, or Chicago is not a city where you can realistically live without a car (in my opinion). In DC, most of the people I worked with didn't have cars. I also have a bunch of friends in Chicago who don't own cars. I think the tracks are just too spread out and don't go enough places. I tried living without a car in Atlanta for a while. It was not easy. I'm sure people do it, but at least in my age group (20 somethings), I don't see it as commonplace.
Also, someone else made this statement, and they are spot on: traffic ITP is not bad at all. Driving on city streets, even in rush hour, isnt bad. Atlanta does get a bad rap for traffic, and its all from the suburbs trying to get ITP. Once you are here, you are golden. I actually attribute this to a good amount of business folks that live in the city and use MARTA to get to work.
As a MARTA rider, I want to reiterate what others have said and add a few new things.
Yes, the MARTA doesn't reach very far out into the suburbs. I don't know many folks from Cobb county that take the MARTA. But the MARTA is very good at what its good at, and that is inter-city (ITP) travel to major places. Its great for folks who work downtown or go to georgia tech or georgia state. Its great for folks who attend thrashers, falcons, or hawks games. I actually find it amazing how many people use it for thrashers games. Trains are always packed, and very few people go to thrashers games. The south just hates hockey, which is sad.
Its also good for the Airport. Quick (and easy) ride from anywhere on the system.
The MARTA is not good for certain things, and I'll use a comparison to DC here. I lived in DC for a few months for an internship. When people in DC go out to dinner, out to the bars, etc, they use the Metro. With the exception of Georgetown, the Metro goes almost everywhere you would want to go. I don't feel (and this is my opinion, based on where I go) the MARTA does not do as good of a job with this. Yes, the MARTA goes to midtown, where there are alot of restaurants, bars, etc. It goes to "buckhead", but not exactly the part of buckhead where people eat and drink (that area is about a mile south of the buckhead station). It doesnt go to the highlands. I think when the beltline is up and running, we will have a pretty interesting public transit system in the city. Should be fun. (Yes, I know its a ways out. Im optimistic).
I'll probably ruffle some feathers with this, but Atlanta, unlike DC, Boston, New York, or Chicago is not a city where you can realistically live without a car (in my opinion). In DC, most of the people I worked with didn't have cars. I also have a bunch of friends in Chicago who don't own cars. I think the tracks are just too spread out and don't go enough places. I tried living without a car in Atlanta for a while. It was not easy. I'm sure people do it, but at least in my age group (20 somethings), I don't see it as commonplace.
Also, someone else made this statement, and they are spot on:traffic ITP is not bad at all. Driving on city streets, even in rush hour, isnt bad Atlanta does get a bad rap for traffic, and its all from the suburbs trying to get ITP. Once you are here, you are golden. I actually attribute this to a good amount of business folks that live in the city and use MARTA to get to work.
Funny how the areas where traffic isn't as bad are the very same areas Marta covers. Are you seeing this suburbanites?
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