Hating on the Highrises (Austin, West: rental, buy, movies)

[Jennibc]

Originally Posted by latikeriii

I agree, if I had a choice to shop at a store downtown or Barton Creek, I would shop downtown. I agree that indoor malls are blands but they are air conditioned too so if people don't mind the hot Texas summers then downtown would be a good alternative. Its not like you'll be outside for an extended period of time though and people shop at the Domain. Also, the chamber of commerce should really work hard to draw chain stores downtown that are not already in Austin. Offer them incentive to come downtown and not to Barton Creek or the Domain. There are tons of stores that are not in Austin that could draw shoppers downtown. Even another huge Apple store would be a draw. Retail will be the engine to drive pedestrian growth. Maybe a movie theater downtown would work too. Eventually with a lot of investment, museums and live theater could come but that would take a few years. Restaurants and Condos are opening at break-neck speed even in a slow economy so there is obviously a market for people who want to be downtown and spend money downtown. Even though I love bars, downtown is oversaturated with them. Just my opinion.

When was the last time you were in Austin?

[TexasHorseLady]

WHY would we want chain stores downtown, anyway? Again, trying to make Austin into Anytown, USA, doesn't seem like it's going to do the city any good, and it will just kill the goose that laid the golden egg and destroy, eventually, what makes Austin, Austin.

This seems to be advocating that the sprawl that afflicts our fair city that so many complain of be applied to downtown, as well, by having chains there instead of real, local, interesting, unique stores, restaurants, museums, entertainment, etc.

Why again is this a good idea?

[latikeriii]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

It's not comparable, but if you fill it with the same stores that are in the malls, it will BECOME comparable. Why aim at that lowest common denominator? (And if you fill up the storefronts with national chains, or even have them predominantly, trust me, you'll get the food court type restaurants - in fact, I was in one downtown just a few weeks ago that was barely a step higher than McDonald's but it appeared it be quite popular among those working/living downtown.) Why not come up with something uniquely Austin, instead, that will draw people downtown, that is more local, or at least statewide, not nationwide, that will appeal to shoppers that they can't get anywhere else?

I'm not against local stores, I prefer them. However, it is very difficult to maintain a local business downtown. Many don't make it, look at 2nd street. Also, contrary to popular belief, a lot of people don't shop at these stores..(South Congress is an exception). Do I like Gap, No. Would more people shop at a Gap than a local store with higher prices...most likely so. In addion, the start-up costs are very high, especially downtown..which leads to the next question: Would Austin do anything like offer incentives, tax breaks, or subsidies to small local businesses only? Who knows. The point about national stores is that they would increase the tax rolls for the city and spur further retail development, local and national.

[latikeriii]

Originally Posted by Jennibc

When was the last time you were in Austin?

2 weeks ago, why? I wouldn't post on the Austin thread if I did not know anything about Austin.

[TexasHorseLady]

Originally Posted by latikeriii

I'm not against local stores, I prefer them. However, it is very difficult to maintain a local business downtown. Many don't make it, look at 2nd street. Also, contrary to popular belief, a lot of people don't shop at these stores..(South Congress is an exception). Do I like Gap, No. Would more people shop at a Gap than a local store with higher prices...most likely so. In addion, the start-up costs are very high, especially downtown..which leads to the next question: Would Austin do anything like offer incentives, tax breaks, or subsidies to small local businesses only? Who knows. The point about national stores is that they would increase the tax rolls for the city and spur further retail development, local and national.

What you're talking about is selling our birthright for a mess of pottage, rather than considered development. Why would we, as a city, want that? Why wouldn't we want something like SoCo downtown, instead, if we're going to make it be All About The Shopping?

[latikeriii]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

What you're talking about is selling our birthright for a mess of pottage, rather than considered development. Why would we, as a city, want that? Why wouldn't we want something like SoCo downtown, instead, if we're going to make it be All About The Shopping?

Most great downtowns have good shopping, no other way to put it. Sorry to tell you but your birthright is already sold..Austin isn't what it used to be and no matter how much people try to retain its old character, too many people with money and other interests are there now. I would love a SoCo like district downtown. If the people had a choice, downtown would have been like SoCo. Mayor Wynn is the man you want to talk to about this, he's heavily involved in downtown redevelopment but I don't know of any incentives to increase local businesses. Downtown is growing and I don't think it'll have an authentic Austin feel...it's already heading away from that. I'm just saying!

[Jennibc]

Originally Posted by latikeriii

Who knows. The point about national stores is that they would increase the tax rolls for the city and spur further retail development, local and national.

This is a HUGE myth. I will try and track down the study that shows these types of ventures do not increase tax revenues, rather, they shift them from other retailers, often times locally owned and operated ones.

Don't you remember the big brewhaha from a few years back when Borders wanted to open a store downtown, complete with tax breaks from the city? Obviously, folks from Bookpeople weren't too happy because they wouldn't be getting the same tax break so of course Borders would be able to undercut them. In essence, Austinites would be subsidizing a big chain that would put a locally beloved institution out of business. All that money, other than the minimum wage that Borders would pay and it tax revenue (but not all that much because it was going to get a tax break and other incentives from the city) would head back to Borders Corporate headquarters wherever that is. But because Bookpeople is locally owned all the money they take in stays right here. Borders has all of its HR, finance, and legal people back at corporate. I imagine, Bookepeople employs a local accountant and has a local lawyer for its needs.

It's true that some local businesses fail, but that's because they aren't good businesses, but other local businesses thrive. Take a look at Waterloo records, Amy's, ZTejas, Whole Foods and Book Poeople as examples of businesses that made it.

[Jennibc]

Originally Posted by latikeriii

2 weeks ago, why? I wouldn't post on the Austin thread if I did not know anything about Austin.

Because downtown is vibrant right now and the way you write is as if it is a ghost town in need of resurrecting. I think it was a fair question.

[TexasHorseLady]

Originally Posted by Jennibc

It's true that some local businesses fail, but that's because they aren't good businesses, but other local businesses thrive. Take a look at Waterloo records, Amy's, ZTejas, Whole Foods and Book Poeople as examples of businesses that made it.

Wonderful post! Reps to you!

I'd much rather see businesses like the ones above (though Whole Foods has gone national and, in the process, lost a lot of what made it desirable in the first place, in my opinion - but that happened when they hired a Big Grocery guy to run the place who just didn't seem to "get it") downtown than the Gap or similar national chains.

Downtown Austin doesn't need to be, and shouldn't be, the suburbs. It shouldn't look like downtown everywhere else, either. It should reflect Austin.

[BentBow]

I miss 1976 and how Austin was back then 33 years ago.
What a hippy town this was then, all the way through the mid 80's, then the flood from Silicon Valley and the ruin of our little city of 220,000 people. Sell their cracker box in Cali for a mint, and have enough to buy 3 homes here and up the rents and cost of houses. In 1983, we were paying $275 rent for a 2000 sq.ft. 4 bedroom house in Barton Hills. In less than 7 years that same house was renting for $900. The 90's hit and Austin became a big Sanctuary City for illegal aliens, ruining it farther. Once nice neighborhoods, are now Barrios. There use to be a law/building code here, that you could not build a tall highrise down town. 15 stories was it, to maintain the view of the Capital building and the UT tower. Corp. greesing palms got that reversed with a majority past California residence city council.