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Old 03-18-2014, 12:01 AM
 
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I know they prefer SUVs due to ride height and what not, but why are wagons considered ugly? Wagons offer the utility of an SUV, and trades off ride height for mpg.

There are an above average number of Dodge Magnums in my city, including the one my neighbors have, and I consider that the best looking car Dodge has besides the Challenger.
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Old 03-18-2014, 01:07 AM
 
Location: MD's Eastern Shore
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My guess is just that general tastes of cars come and go. 30 years ago when I just got my license I was driving the SUV's of the time. Most of them were 2 door except for the suburban and wagoneer. With the exception of a couple smaller ones the SUV's of the time were based on the full sized pickup versions from ford, chevy, dodge and jeep and I think they carried the negative stigma attached to trucks at the time as well.

I think then the realization came as to how useful a truck based SUV could be and the comfort level and options available made them quite nice. In the 90's as well, a lot of SUV's started being manufactured to fill in all size ranges. Not all of them were a company's pickup basically with a shell anymore. And they all started having 4 doors as the 2 door versions were dropped.

Combine that with the arrival of the mini van as a people hauler and you had the passenger ability of an old full sized wagon but with decent MPG's so there was something available for those who didn't want a "truck" but needed passenger space.

It just seems that practicality wise, the station wagon lost it's advantage.
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Old 03-18-2014, 01:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marlinfshr View Post

Combine that with the arrival of the mini van as a people hauler and you had the passenger ability of an old full sized wagon but with decent MPG's so there was something available for those who didn't want a "truck" but needed passenger space.

It just seems that practicality wise, the station wagon lost it's advantage.
SUVs are expensive and have less MPG. Maybe that didn't matter when gas was cheap and the economy was good, but I'd think it would now.
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Old 03-18-2014, 01:58 AM
 
1,198 posts, read 1,791,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHurricaneKid View Post
SUVs are expensive and have less MPG. Maybe that didn't matter when gas was cheap and the economy was good, but I'd think it would now.
Subaru Forester MPG >>> Subaru Outback MPG

SUV vs Station Wagon right there, and the forester is cheaper.

Similar cargo space, but a shorter wheelbase so easier to park, higher ride so easier to see the road, easier to get into and out of, better approach and depart angles for off pavement treks.
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Old 03-18-2014, 05:10 AM
 
Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
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A 1994-96 Buick Roadmaster with the 9C1 LT1 RWD and full frame with the 4-speed 700R4 which is pretty much is replaced by the a Modern 2wd Chevy Yukon/Tahoe and 1/2 ton Suburban but then again the Suburban is what a old school station wagon was and if you needed to seat 8 or needed the with the optional tow package the mid-size and full-size SUVs that were body on frame truck based platforms were the same as the old wagons and replaced them.

Now CUV have replaced most of the original body of frame SUVs and are FWD/AWD and not able to tow like the old 1/2 ton PU truck based Full-size Bronco, K5 blazer, Dodge Ram Charger and the Yukon/Tahoe/Escalade and the larger Suburban and the Ford Expedition

Buick revived the Roadmaster name for a B-body station wagon in 1991, replacing the Estate Wagon in the lineup. Using the 115.9-inch (2,940 mm) wheelbase that was introduced for the 1977 model year, the wagon was called the Roadmaster Estate Wagon.

although it shared parts with other full-size GM models. The Roadmaster Estate was a badge engineered Chevrolet Caprice Estate (also sold as the Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser) the three variants differing mainly in grille design and trim.

Simulated woodgrain side and back panels (made of vinyl) were standard on the Roadmaster Estate, although a delete option (WB4 wood delete) was available for credit. The "Vista Roof", a fixed sunroof over the second-row seats that was not available on the Caprice, was standard as well. The Roadmaster Estate could seat up to eight with an optional third-row seat. All these wagons initially used Chevrolet's 5.0 L small-block V8, but both Buicks used the larger 5.7 L version from 1992.

From 1994–1996, the Roadmaster, like all B-Body variants, began utilizing the iron head version of the Gen II LT1 V8, its 350 c.i/5.7 liters producing 260 hp (194 kW) and 335 lb·ft (454 N·m) of torque. The switch from the Gen I TBI 5.7l V8 was due to increasing standards for emissions and fuel economy that the aging Gen I could no longer meet. This motor was shared with the Impala SS of the same era and was related to the 4.3 l/265 c.i. L99 V8 that was the base motor for the Chevrolet Caprice, and varied mainly from the F body and Corvette applications by:

A) using iron heads rather than aluminum (specified by police departments for durability and utilized throughout the B-Body line) B) a milder cam that produced a better torque curve for the heavy B-Bodies. C) various intake silencers used to make the engine more palatable to the luxury market and/or pass drive-by noise standards. D) Two bolt main journal bearing caps (also true with the F-body LT1 engines, but not the Corvette).

The Roadmaster was only delivered with the 5.7 l LT1, however, and such cars can be detected visually by a factory-installed stainless steel dual exhaust. The interior of the LT1 cars is distinguished by utilizing analog gauges rather than digital. However, unlike its stablemates, the 9C1 Caprice and Impala SS the Roadmaster was limited to 108 mph (174 km/h) due to the factory-fitted tires not being rated to run the 140 mph (230 km/h) plus the 9C1 and SS were capable of. The engine returns 17 mpg-US (14 L/100 km; 20 mpg city/25 mpg (9.4 L/100 km; for a 4500lb wagon fuel economy went up 1 mpg-US city from the previous version.

The transmission from 1994–96 was changed from the 'analog' 700R4/4L60 to the electronically controlled version of the same, the 4L60E.

Ordered with the towing package, the 94-96 Roadmaster was advertised to tow up to 5000 pounds, although the Estate Wagon owner's manual extended that to 7,000 lbs when using a weight distributing hitch, dual sway controls, increasing the rear tire pressure to 35 psi and disabling the Electronic Level Control.

The tow package added 2.93 gears and a limited slip differential, heavy duty cooling system including oil and transmission coolers, and a factory installed self leveling rear suspension consisting of air shocks, a height sensor between the rear axle and body and an on-board air compressor. The most distinctive feature was the combination of one conventional fan driven mechanically from the engine alongside of one electric fan, offset to the left (non-towpack cars came with two electric fans).

The caprice wagon that was made into a fake Impala SS was pretty big in the mid-late 90's and they looked pretty good even today and add in the huge amount of aftermarket support for the LT1 based 350 SBC and you can have a totally built LT1 based 383 stoker with a Eaton Supercharger for a sleeper
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Old 03-18-2014, 05:12 AM
 
Location: Daytona Beach,Florida
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You are the very first person I have ever heard say this!
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Old 03-18-2014, 06:12 AM
 
Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
11,155 posts, read 29,304,991 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHurricaneKid View Post
SUVs are expensive and have less MPG. Maybe that didn't matter when gas was cheap and the economy was good, but I'd think it would now.
Ya but then again we are free to choose what we drive and work to pay for the fuel to run them and well my 91 F250 gets about 11MPG on average and goes down if towing or taking it off-road and it drops down to 6-8MPG but it has a 19Gal front tank and a LMC Truck replacement 38 Gallon rear tank.

Reason my truck gets such terrible fuel economy is it is underpowered since the OBDI OHC 16-valve old school ford 5.0 Liter and 5.8 liter Windsor V8's make their torque and power at higher RPMs.

so to compensate for and get into the power ban quicker is why I put in a Detroit Locker 4.11 Gear Ratio in the semi-floating massive Sterling 10.25 Rear Diff..

But add in the truck being as aerodynamic as a brick steel front bumper aftermarket braces to make the chassis stiffer and skid plates with a Warn which and then add in a 6" lift and 35" tires and it is built to be a trail rig made to go off-road in the PNW and because of that I pay for it in fuel both loaded and esp. when towing due to the way I built it but then again it is great at the purpose it was built for and just ok for a daily driver where the FWY driving is minimal and it is terrible as a tow vehicle esp. at elevation.

As for the Dodge Magnums it was something that they should of kept but due to low sales and the stock Daimler Chrysler era 3.5 V-6 was not powerful enough to move those cars they are underpowered in base V6 pre-Pentastar trim.

The R/T with the 5.7 Hemi and AWD and the SRT8 with the 6.1 Hemi were not really that great on gas and would get the about the same fuel economy as the Chrysler LX based platforms just the Refreshed Dodge Magnum would compete with the Dodge Caravan, Dodge Journey, Jeep Grand Cherokee and the Dodge Durango. dodge has no reason to bring them back due to having so many alternatives already and the design and production costs.
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Old 03-18-2014, 07:17 AM
 
9,659 posts, read 10,224,175 times
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Originally Posted by bruceox1962 View Post
You are the very first person I have ever heard say this!
You can't be serious.

Take a look at this gorgeous Mazda6 wagon:

http://i.i.cbsi.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/20...a6-Wagon-3.jpg
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Old 03-18-2014, 07:19 AM
 
2,957 posts, read 5,901,088 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHurricaneKid View Post
You can't be serious.

Take a look at this gorgeous Mazda6 wagon:

http://i.i.cbsi.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/20...a6-Wagon-3.jpg
Agree. That looks much better than the SUV (CX-5). It also gets much better gas mileage.
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Old 03-18-2014, 07:26 AM
 
9,659 posts, read 10,224,175 times
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Originally Posted by blazerj View Post
Agree. That looks much better than the SUV (CX-5). It also gets much better gas mileage.
Too bad it won't be sold here, because of American purchasing habits.
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