Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I can't speak for everyone, but I'm not saying I'm entitled to the holdback. What I'm saying, is the dealer can't show some absolutely made up invoice, act as if holdback doesn't exist and then whine about how they are not making money in the deal, because that is a LIE.
In which case you should walk. You don't want to do business with any business that starts off lying to you. Walk.
Quote:
Supposedly, lying is not ethical, or so they say. If you can't make money, don't do the deal. Like I said, I'm happy to have an honest conversation without games about pricing and make sure everyone leaves happy. It's not worth my time to get the final $200 out of the deal or whatever, that's probably not half a payment, but don't act like I'm stupid.
Absolutely.......I went to high school with a guy that owns the local Toyota dealer......(his dad originally started it). He will tell you....especially to his friends......"Yes, I am making money, but who would you rather make some money, a friend or a stranger".
Quote:
As far as Apple with MacBooks, you won't see them selling one for $1200, one for 1250 to the grandma and one to the tough negotiator for 1050 now do you?
You might be surprised what you can negotiate if you want to. I've been able to get a lower price on a TV at Wal Mart. Generally to do this you have to pick out one on clearance, find a manager and tell them that if they marked it down again you will take it. They want it gone, many times they will.
There are things that I've simply not been able to get lower.
Quote:
If I was the only one that everyone loved my product but hated me, I might try to find out why and change. Instead, the entrenched dealers try to fight people like Tesla that try to do it differently just like entrenched players almost always do instead of innovating.
IMO it's no one elses business how a business wants to operate their business. If Tesla wants to give it a go, I say great. The problem I have is the government subsidizing them at the expense of others.
Why do you think this is?
What got the buyers thinking this way?
The automotive industry has a bad rap because of how dealers operated years ago. A lot of them were crooked and did things illegally. That was before things were really regulated. They've never been able to shake this image. Dealers are now regulated and are watched closely. They have audits from the lenders, state and manufacturers. If they're doing something illegal, they will eventually pay for it. Last time I check, making a profit is not illegal. I'm not saying all dealers are perfect and it isn't just car dealers. You have bad businesses throughout all markets. All businesses are out to make a profit. They have to or they cannot stay in business and will not be around to offer you a product that you may want to purchase. It is only the automotive industry who is expected to work on razor sharp margins and be 100% transparent.
Maybe the transparency is what has caused a lot of this? Maybe if the dealers were not so transparent and refused to show invoice, the buyers would have no way of knowing how much profit the dealerships are making on the front end of the sale. You would be provided the MSRP and that is it. Whatever you're able to negotiate off of that is what you get. This is how every other industry is. Only the car industry is expected to show invoice to begin negotiating.
Harley-Davidson regulates their dealers. They are not allowed to discount a new Harley. The MSRP price is what the price is. You can negotiate parts and accessories into the deal, but you're not going to get a Harley dealer to show you his invoice and holdback. Motorcycle dealers have holdback as well. Did you know that Yamaha dealers receive additional points to increase their holdback when they sell a unit that is on floorplan for less than 10 days? Should they be required to reveal this to you when you purchase a new ATV or motorcycle? I mean they shouldn't be allowed to do this right? How dare them not give you their earned profits.
Someone mentioned negotiating a mattress purchase previously. Some mattress and furniture stores will negotiate. I personally love to negotiate. Do I expect it, no. Do I expect the store to show me invoice and then allow me to negotiate from there, no. Everyone expects the car dealers to do it though.
Haha, Im a little different than most when it comes to buying a vehicle. Its all about look, the brand, etc...if its a little uncomfortable im ok with that. I don't care if I had the most luxurious interior out there, if the look of the car doesn't appeal to me ill get bored with it.
Same here. Looks factor in 90% of my buying decision. Just how I'm wired. I'll see a new car in commercial/online/magazine and instantly fall in love with it. Go test drive and it really doesn't matter, my mind has been made up already. I'll try to make excuses if it drives rough, no HP, etc.
Haha, Im a little different than most when it comes to buying a vehicle. Its all about look, the brand, etc...if its a little uncomfortable im ok with that. I don't care if I had the most luxurious interior out there, if the look of the car doesn't appeal to me ill get bored with it.
I also have a soft spot for form over function but we are in the minority. IMO.
This is where car salesmen do a lot of their dirty work. Simplify your deal! Sell your car on the open market, that is where you will get the most money.
Arrange your financing in advance, but do not tell the dealer you have done that. Make him think he will be doing the financing. He will hide profit there.
Then negotiate your best price for your new car. If you can't get invoice and holdback information out of the bastards, and you often won't, shop 5 dealers and get 5 written quotes and make them battle each other. They may not disclose all their secret data on how much they are making, but COMPETITION WILL HELP SQUEEZE IT OUT, EVEN IF YOU DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IT IS.
Then, when you have a firm price on an exact car, substitute your own financing and move forward. If the dealer renegs at this point, you know you are dealing with a corrupt RICO-eligible crooked hustling brigand, and you can take your business to the next dealer.
Someone mentioned negotiating a mattress purchase previously. Some mattress and furniture stores will negotiate. I personally love to negotiate. Do I expect it, no. Do I expect the store to show me invoice and then allow me to negotiate from there, no. Everyone expects the car dealers to do it though.
I mentioned that. I didn't research profits and I have no clue what they made.....I hope they did make money and I'm sure they did. I bought where I did because I enjoyed that the salesperson would negotiate and he was good at it.
He knew his products, answered my questions and wanted to sell me the mattress not just put in his hours. Whatever he made he deserved.
New car dealers depend on complexity and fog. Clear up the scenario.
Financing is one task.
Selling your existing vehicle is another task.
Buying the car, and ONLY buying the car, is another task.
Insuring the car is another task.
Registering the car is another task.
Do every task independent of the others. Each task should be subject to detailed analysis and competition to lower the price.
This is where car salesmen do a lot of their dirty work. Simplify your deal! Sell your car on the open market, that is where you will get the most money.
Arrange your financing in advance, but do not tell the dealer you have done that. Make him think he will be doing the financing. He will hide profit there.
Then negotiate your best price for your new car. If you can't get invoice and holdback information out of the bastards, and you often won't, shop 5 dealers and get 5 written quotes and make them battle each other. They may not disclose all their secret data on how much they are making, but COMPETITION WILL HELP SQUEEZE IT OUT, EVEN IF YOU DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IT IS.
Then, when you have a firm price on an exact car, substitute your own financing and move forward. If the dealer renegs at this point, you know you are dealing with a corrupt RICO-eligible crooked hustling brigand, and you can take your business to the next dealer.
I do think car dealerships offer a valuable service: the trade in.
Sure you'll certainly get more for your car selling it privately but for more expensive cars with liens still on it it truly is a big hassle which many aren't willing to take. Not many buyers can come up with $20K in cash and be willing to meet you at local bank where your title or being held. Or worse if the title is being held across the country there has to be some honor system in place as buyer has to supply you with the $20K so you can pay off your loan and wait a week or two for the title to be mailed in.
With a dealer it's very simple even if you are leaving money on the table.
This is where car salesmen do a lot of their dirty work. Simplify your deal! Sell your car on the open market, that is where you will get the most money.
Arrange your financing in advance, but do not tell the dealer you have done that. Make him think he will be doing the financing. He will hide profit there.
Then negotiate your best price for your new car. If you can't get invoice and holdback information out of the bastards, and you often won't, shop 5 dealers and get 5 written quotes and make them battle each other. They may not disclose all their secret data on how much they are making, but COMPETITION WILL HELP SQUEEZE IT OUT, EVEN IF YOU DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IT IS.
It's available all over the place. You don't have to get invoice and hold back from the dealer. It's not a secret. Going to more than one dealer is certainly a good thing to do.
Quote:
Then, when you have a firm price on an exact car, substitute your own financing and move forward. If the dealer renegs at this point, you know you are dealing with a corrupt RICO-eligible crooked hustling brigand, and you can take your business to the next dealer.
You have most definitely been buying cars at the wrong places.
I hate wasting my time negotiating. I have many better things to do with my time. I would rather pay a little more and be out the door in an hour than waste hours of my time to skim just a little more off the top not knowing in the end if I did get the best deal I could have. I know there are a lot of negative comments on here about it but I prefer dealerships like CarMax, where the buying process is laid out in front of you and they don't work for commission.
I don't like when dealers try to get me to buy GAP insurance, extended warranties, financing, etc.. When I go car shopping I am already pre approved for a loan and want to buy a specific car with specific options. Don't try to sell me something else. If I will be trading in my car I don't want it appraised until after we settle on a number for the new car. I also don't like test driving (if at all) before the numbers are where I need them to be. Again, this is a waste of time.
I would love to just order a car from the factory and have it delivered to my door to be honest.
This is their job though. Upselling is part of retail. I was at a Tractor Supply Store this past weekend to purchase a few items. The cashier was checking me out and she asks me if I would be interested in purchasing some extras they had on sale that day. That's all the dealer is doing when they ask about extended warranties. All you have to do is simply say no. No thank you usually does the trick. Some people want GAP and extended warranty though.
Ever go out to eat and your close to being done when the waitress or waiter asks if you would like dessert or coffee? They're upselling. What do you tell them? No different than what the dealer is doing with his extras. Do you hate going out to dinner because they are going to ask you if you would like dessert? No, you simply say no or you order dessert.
It is all about how you approach the deal. If you want to eliminate the hours of haggling and waiting in the dealership, simply approach it as such. Do your research, make an offer that you feel is good and walkout if you don't like what they come back with. Tell the salesman that this is your offer and it is firm. You're not open for negotiation. I would prefer this as I wouldn't want to waste hours negotiating with a customer and missing out on other potential buyers calling or coming into the dealership.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If you can't make money, don't do the deal. Like I said, I'm happy to have an honest conversation without games about pricing and make sure everyone leaves happy. It's not worth my time to get the final $200 out of the deal or whatever, that's probably not half a payment, but don't act like I'm stupid.
