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I know a few '01 7 series with over 300k on them, but it's rare because most people simply don't drive over 10k miles a year in a luxury car. My '01 740i has only 170k on it (averages 10k miles per year) but I should be able to get 250-300k out of it, too, if I feel like holding on to it that long (that's another 10-15 years and I normally don't keep a car more than 5). No major issues so far.
Keep it until you're 90! That's by far and away the best 7 series as far as I'm concerned. I like older cars in general the more I age (I'm 35); I'm not sure if it's nostalgia or that I just prefer the old school way, or both. There's something to be said about the late 90's and early 00's flagship beasts not counting the W220.
Am I the only one who doesn't get the "fun to drive" thing?
Highway cruise - set it to 70mph and enjoy the ride, the smoother, the quieter the better.
Everyday commute and grocery - as long as the traffic isn't bad, I'll get there in 15 minutes.
I rented Volvo multiple times and I drove my ex girlfriend's A4 a couple of times, positive experience but nothing fun.
"Fun to drive" is just pure marketing fanboy BS. I have driven many different brands and types of vehicles, European cars are no more or less fun to drive than any other. It is especially funny when this "fun to drive" crap to describe a four door sedan like a 3 series used for commuting and getting groceries. We all know that it is important to rotate through the apex while using threshold braking techniques on your morning run to Starbucks in a 4k pound luxury sedan.
The reality is that both Audi and Lexus make nice cars. The Lexus will be much more reliable over the long term, even for fans of Euro vehicles Audis are notorious for problems.
If you live out in a flat area in the suburbs just going to work and the grocery store and don't have a thrill seeking bone in your body then yes "fun to drive" doesn't matter.
If you like taking cruises with no destination in mind, live somewhere with lots of curves, mountains, take up track days, SCCA membership, or just like the feel of being planted back in your seat with torque and feeling the g-forces on high speed turns that's another matter.
"Fun to drive" is just pure marketing fanboy BS. I have driven many different brands and types of vehicles, European cars are no more or less fun to drive than any other. It is especially funny when this "fun to drive" crap to describe a four door sedan like a 3 series used for commuting and getting groceries. We all know that it is important to rotate through the apex while using threshold braking techniques on your morning run to Starbucks in a 4k pound luxury sedan.
Dont' be obtuse. People that actually know how to drive can feel the difference just taking an onramp, or just hitting a set of switchbacks. There's a noticeable difference in my 740i Sport just comparing it to a base 740iL of the same year. And a HUGE difference over driving a Buick or Lexus LS. I've driven hundreds of different cars on the street and on the track and I can feel it within a short distance of taking off whether a car is fun to drive or a boring snoozefest.
Maybe you're just not very good at it.
Some cars communicate with you and are willing dance partners. Others are not. Anyone with half an ounce of skill can tell the difference almost instantly.
I'm about to take mine home from the office on the backroads between here and there and it'll put a smile on my face doing so.
I know a few '01 7 series with over 300k on them, but it's rare because most people simply don't drive over 10k miles a year in a luxury car. My '01 740i has only 170k on it (averages 10k miles per year) but I should be able to get 250-300k out of it, too, if I feel like holding on to it that long (that's another 10-15 years and I normally don't keep a car more than 5). No major issues so far.
To be fair here you have to admit....this 359k Lexus LS....very very impressive but Lexus cars are known to last that long. It's quite an accomplishment but not the first extreme high mileage Lexus story I've heard.
7 series, the last thing they're known for is to last so long and be so trouble free that you see one traded in with 359,000 well worn miles but still flawless mechanically. If someone could show me an equivalent video like I posted, but it being a traded-in 2003 7 series with 359k miles and sound, I'll sign over the deed to my house right now. I've never seen a 7 series running well and trouble free past 100k. My friend's '06 750 engine just blew at 80k.... Tried to warn him before he bought it. My boss' before that, his 740 lunched its engine at 100k bc BMW designed plastic timing chain guides (like their coolant systems---made of plastic parts wtf)...tried to warn him about that one too. And don't get me wrong, I'm a huuuge E38 fan. But I would never want a used one
I get that they drive amazingly but I like cars I can just drive and not have to worry about repairs. My LS430 will never drive like a 7 series, and that's ok. It wafts along with the best of them but yes, when the roads turn twisty it doesn't get my heart racing. The old Lexus LS' purpose is just 1000000% luxury and comfortable cruising, and that it does as well as any luxury car ever made.
One of my friends has a 2000 328i, he's the joke of our group because it's always broken down and all he does is fawn over it like we are supposed to be impressed. Car is worth maybe $1500 and he routinely drops that much or more to keep it running about every two months. It does look good though, but it's hilarious to watch thing after thing break and him still act like it's not the POS it is. He sets aside $500 a month for repairs and justifies that because it's paid for, it's the silliest thing we've all ever seen.
~300k is nothing. The highest mileage car I'm familiar with is a near 3 million mile Mercedes. Volvos, Saabs, and VW have had million+ mile cars in the news too.
Matt Farah has a Lexus approaching a million miles. He approached Lexus about making some promotion for when it crosses over but apparently they weren't interested as they say all their cars are built to go that far heh.
To be fair here you have to admit....this 359k Lexus LS....very very impressive but Lexus cars are known to last that long. It's quite an accomplishment but not the first extreme high mileage Lexus story I've heard.
7 series, the last thing they're known for is to last so long and be so trouble free that you see one traded in with 359,000 well worn miles but still flawless mechanically. If someone could show me an equivalent video like I posted, but it being a traded-in 2003 7 series with 359k miles and sound, I'll sign over the deed to my house right now. I've never seen a 7 series running well and trouble free past 100k. My friend's '06 750 engine just blew at 80k.... Tried to warn him before he bought it. My boss' before that, his 740 lunched its engine at 100k bc BMW designed plastic timing chain guides (like their coolant systems---made of plastic parts wtf)...tried to warn him about that one too. And don't get me wrong, I'm a huuuge E38 fan. But I would never want a used one
I get that they drive amazingly but I like cars I can just drive and not have to worry about repairs. My LS430 will never drive like a 7 series, and that's ok. It wafts along with the best of them but yes, when the roads turn twisty it doesn't get my heart racing. The old Lexus LS' purpose is just 1000000% luxury and comfortable cruising, and that it does as well as any luxury car ever made.
One of my friends has a 2000 328i, he's the joke of our group because it's always broken down and all he does is fawn over it like we are supposed to be impressed. Car is worth maybe $1500 and he routinely drops that much or more to keep it running about every two months. It does look good though, but it's hilarious to watch thing after thing break and him still act like it's not the POS it is. He sets aside $500 a month for repairs and justifies that because it's paid for, it's the silliest thing we've all ever seen.
Serious question for those who are in the "driving dynamics don't matter crowd" - if that is the case, why buy a Lexus in the first place? For every Lexus there is a Toyota that is comparable so if you just care about (perceived) reliability and resale value, why not just buy a Toyota and save a bunch of money? Those Toyotas will generally have better resale values and better quality than their Lexus counterparts.
I wouldn't buy any ES350 - I just don't "love" them enough to warrant the price. They are boring and drive like mush to me.
On the Audi A6 side, I wouldn't bother with one of those unless you get the 3.0L engine. If I'm paying premium money for a "premium" car, I am not okay with dropping in a typical, boring 250hp motor that I can get in any run of the mill sedan from Ford, Chevy, Toyota, etc.
Last edited by iamweasel; 09-11-2017 at 07:36 PM..
Reason: typo
Serious question for those who are in the "driving dynamics don't matter crowd" - if that is the case, why buy a Lexus in the first place? For every Lexus there is a Toyota that is comparable so if you just care about (perceived) reliability and resale value, why not just buy a Toyota and save a bunch of money? Those Toyotas will generally have better resale values and better quality than their Lexus counterparts.
In my experience working for and with OEM's my statements proved to be true. It may not occur to people but in reality a couple things make my statements accurate for the most part:
1) In 95% of cases, the luxury cousin to the mainstream sedan (think ES350 vs Camry) typically has more TGW's and warranty costs associated with it. This is data reviewed from actual OEM warranty analysis/spending - not some JD Power survey or whatever. (Mainly due to the fact the luxury counterparts have more parts and fancier widgets that tend to break more often.) Surveys like JD Power have a self-fulfilling prophecy bias that makes a difference there, not to mention any statistician will tell you those surveys have too small of a sample size to be statistically significant. JD Power is the best of the bunch on that stuff, but even their most recent dependability survey was only 35,000 surveys out of 17 MILLION cars sold - a whopping 0.2% sample size.
2) On a "retention" value standpoint (% of transaction price), the mainstream sedans (Camry) tend to hold a higher value than their luxury counterparts like an ES350. Most people measure "residual" value (% of MSRP) and that is cute and all but most people do not pay MSRP for a vehicle. What really matters is the actual transaction price of the car they buy and people generally get more of a discount from MSRP on a vehicle like a Camry than a ES350.
So if you take the actual transaction cost, and then look at wholesale values of those cars 3 and 5 years later, the Camry loses less real value both in real dollars and retention value percentage. One reason for this is the heavier amount of off-lease luxury cars which puts a big dent in their resale values starting in year 2 (and especially year 3) relative to their mainstream brand cousins.
So many luxury car buyers are clueless to this kind of stuff and it's like you insult them when talking about it. They think "just because" they buy a Lexus they are getting top quality, top resale, top everything else...maybe they think this way because deep down they need to justify how much they paid for the car I guess.
Last edited by iamweasel; 09-11-2017 at 08:22 PM..
Reason: typo
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