Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I agree. Dealer means someone is in the business of dealing cars, not services.
A used car shop is still a dealer. An independent repair shop is not a dealer.
Not in the three states that I've worked in. Even independent, non-certified shops need to apply for a dealer's license in the state and those who are "certified" need to sign dealer agreements with the manufacturer.
If you sell cars, trucks, parts or service labor in those three states then you are a dealer, whether you like it or not.
For the last time.... an independent REPAIR FACILITY (repair facilities do not sell cars) is NOT a DEALER even if certified. They are certified to repair vehicles for the manufacturer. They are not certified to SELL cars for the manufacturer. There is a difference there.
I understand that, but to do warranty for an OEM you must use and resell the parts they specify, and you are also selling labor sales, too. In the three states I'm familiar with you get a dealer license from the state and you sign a dealer agreement with the manufacturer you are represent in that case. The word "dealer" is on both of those documents and that doesn't mean they have to sell cars or trucks to be considered one.
Parts and service only is a still a dealer - at least some of the time for sure - and I would guess it's that way in most states given what I know about state franchise laws, but maybe not all.
I think car sales will be worse without a dealership. Their job is promote cars and help people choose, majority of consumers don't research or any clue what features or what to look for so they need some sway.
That's where car salesman make their money they can get people to decide,
Not in the three states that I've worked in. Even independent, non-certified shops need to apply for a dealer's license in the state and those who are "certified" need to sign dealer agreements with the manufacturer.
If you sell cars, trucks, parts or service labor in those three states then you are a dealer, whether you like it or not.
Whether you call them a dealer or not they would still be just certified repair facilities (whole point of this discussion). It's a question of semantics at this point. They would not be selling new cars.
Whether you call them a dealer or not they would still be just certified repair facilities (whole point of this discussion). It's a question of semantics at this point. They would not be selling new cars.
I understand that, my point is you would just replace existing dealers with different dealers. What does that accomplish? If you're going to make a change to eliminate dealers, then these service centers would need to be factory-owned, not through a 3rd party individual or business.
Not to mention you have to address how to handle trade-ins. These parts & service only stores probably won't be set up for that.
If a manufacturer wanted to control the distribution of the new product (which they don't) then they could give each of their current dealers a cash settlement to cover the net worth of the sales part of their franchise. They would need some compensation if this was taken from them. Pretty much all state franchise laws cover this type of thing.
I think car sales will be worse without a dealership. Their job is promote cars and help people choose, majority of consumers don't research or any clue what features or what to look for so they need some sway.
That's where car salesman make their money they can get people to decide,
Really? Consumers don't have the internet and Google? Manufacturers make it easy to see and compare features online.
That's the entire point I was making. If you want dishwasher XYZ, you can go to the website for lowes, home depot, walmart, etc and see the price, then select where you purchase it from. The company that prices it best (or offers best service etc) wins. It's not MSRP $1,000, actual price somewhere between $500 and $1000 depending on which salesman you get and how hard you haggle.
I just don't understand how you think buying something from a store is anything like buying a car. When I buy an expensive TV, for example, I pick out a model I want, then I check the web for who has the best price, then I put in my credit card info and it shows up in a few days. Or buy it in person- go to walmart, stick it in the cart, swipe my card, get the "do you want a warranty?", say "no", sign, leave. Truly a matter of minutes, if not seconds.
Oh, and your "10 minute" car buying experience is complete bull. You walk in, give them the price, then they go and check with their manager, then they come back with a yes/no. If they say "yes" to your first price, congratulations- you just got ripped off; anytime a dealer takes your first price they are laughing at you after you leave because they got you to overpay. If/when they say "no", then you leave, wait for the salesman to get you on the lot/on the phone, give you yet another price that still isn't your price, then you truly leave. Then you drive across town to the other dealer and do it all over again. Eventually one calls you and offers to give you the fair price that Truecar/KBB/Edmunds says you should be paying.
So, if you're buying a car in 10 minutes, you're just overpaying. I guess if you're ok with that, then fine. And I know you're still lying about the paperwork- it takes at least 10 minutes for them to print everything out and write it all up, even if the terms were certain. My wager is that it takes 45 minutes to buy a new car if you're overpaying or buying an advertised lease special with zero haggling, or many hours if you're trying to get a "fair" price as per the online resources.
Case in point- I'm literally trying to buy a new car right now. All of the online resources say that this particular model should be selling at 10% off MSRP. Dealership 1 gave me 7% off but only if I would take their terrible financing, Dealership 2 offered 5% off, and then I started engaging brokers who promised 10% off but haven't been able to line up the deal yet. On a $60k car, if I'm willing to pad the dealership's pocket by an extra ~2-3k (on top of the profit that they are already earning at 10% off MSRP), I can have that car today. But if I just want the average price being paid on the market according to the big 3 websites, I need to hustle. I've been working on buying this car for well over a month and I'm about to just give up and keep the current one for another year. It's dumb, especially in 2017 when there are so many better ways to do it.
Easy, per your own instructions. Just "go to the website for <dealer> and see the price, then select where you purchase it from. The company that prices it best (or offers best service etc) wins."
I can tell you, beyond the shadow of a doubt, I can get whatever car you are looking for at invoice price minus any rebates within 10 minutes of walking in a dealership. Whatever they make at that price is not my problem or concern. If they starve, they should learn to run a better business. If they made good money, congratulations. My time is worth money too. While they are making a copy of the invoice to verify, I fill out the credit application and when price is confirmed, they get the application in their hand. We set a designated time to pick up the vehicle, and I come back and sign papers and drive away. I spent almost 10 years in the retail business, I don't need an hour to sign or have them try to upsell me. If they offer crap financing, my credit union will do it with a phone call and a faxed copy of the purchase order.
Eventually, if you can't post a profit than an inflated share price will drop.
Eventually yes, one can always short before that time comes but right now thats not what is happening...
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamweasel
That being said, you can't compare Tesla, who makes a whopping 2 different models right now that are both extremely expensive, to mass market automakers when it comes to vehicle stock.
Not right now but give it the time traditional automakers have been around and given bailouts, we will see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamweasel
Apples to oranges comparison there, but even so a customer can order a car any way they see fit so I never understood why people gripe so much about the "oh, that slimy dealer took my lunch money and made me buy a car I didn't want" attitude of some. As a consumer, you can order and buy any configuration you want that a manufacturer builds. The dealer has nothing to do with that aside from giving you a price. The manufacturer determines which models to build, which trim series to sell, what options/packages to offer, etc. All this information is easily found online or in the brochures at the dealer. Every manufacturer has a "build and price" section on their website so you can see EXACTLY how to build the car you want. If someone allows themselves to be "tricked" into buying something they don't want then I don't know how to help them. It takes a few minutes of research to avoid being "tricked" or "fooled."
You know it by the time you are done configuring your model and entering your zip code and personal information, you are not routed to Detroit or Japan mister, it goes to the very local dealership you are trying to avoid ...nice try once the dealership has been provided your info, the influx of spam calls start.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamweasel
In my opinion dealers have plenty of base/cheap models/trims on their lots. Too many, in fact. Seems to me on many models there are too many cheap trims and too many high-end trims and not much in between. That being said, you talk to any dealer these days and the higher-contented vehicles are slowly becoming the choice for many. People have higher expectations and things like heated seats, once a luxury option, are now being chosen more and more. Even rain sensing wipers is a very popular option and continues to sell more each year. (I have rain sensing wipers on both my cars - one is a basic domestic sedan and one is a luxury sports sedan.)
We are talking luxury market only. Most of the luxury cars and SUVs have standard options which are considered an upgrade on a regular brand. Rain sensing wiper might be a relatively popular option but unless it is available as default on every new car like backup camera it is not so important to me personally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamweasel
For me personally my wife gets middle-of-the-road models/options I tend to load my cars up. Last time I bought my wife a car the dealer near us didn't have exactly what I wanted so after 5 minutes on the manufacturer's website I found 3 of them within a few hours of us. Ended up buying one of those. It was not hard to do and if I didn't find those then I'd just order it....no big deal. I don't **** and moan about my local dealer not stocking it, I'm okay with the fact that I wanted something that they probably don't sell much of. Fine....
Good for you. I didn't complain about local dealer not stocking what I wanted. I complained when my local dealer first tried to get rid of what they had on lot which was the loaded up versions, instead of getting what i wanted. When I told them what i wanted, they made the destination delivery price so expensive that it didn't make sense buying the vehicle I wanted. At the end of the day, I ended up buying from a dealership out of state. Still paid the same registration and taxes and paid for my own delivery which was cheaper than the local guys. Still had to go through dealer, still took advantage of the promotion.. Didn't by pass them all....
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamweasel
The part that's funny is the dealer will pay dearly for stocking cars that don't sell. The floorplan interest cost will eat into what little profit they have FAST and if not sold within 2-3 months then they may end up in the red on some cars. The longer it goes the more they lose. There is a very, very strong motivation to stock what a dealer thinks they can sell and they do the best they can with that. Why on earth would a dealer stock units that don't sell on purpose? That's just insane....
Majority of the people don't even know what options are available. In all promotions and marketing only the top of the line and upgraded version is used everywhere. Most of the people don't even know that they can get base model without any bells and whistles for far less than a upgraded option. Also, Japanese car dealers have no issue moving inventory. The demand is quite high. If everyone wants upgraded fully loaded mode, why would the manufacturers even make base models?
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamweasel
Lastly, I absolutely do not work for a Korean company. My experience is with American and European companies - cars and trucks.
Eventually yes, one can always short before that time comes but right now thats not what is happening...
Not right now but give it the time traditional automakers have been around and given bailouts, we will see.
You know it by the time you are done configuring your model and entering your zip code and personal information, you are not routed to Detroit or Japan mister, it goes to the very local dealership you are trying to avoid ...nice try once the dealership has been provided your info, the influx of spam calls start.
We are talking luxury market only. Most of the luxury cars and SUVs have standard options which are considered an upgrade on a regular brand. Rain sensing wiper might be a relatively popular option but unless it is available as default on every new car like backup camera it is not so important to me personally.
Good for you. I didn't complain about local dealer not stocking what I wanted. I complained when my local dealer first tried to get rid of what they had on lot which was the loaded up versions, instead of getting what i wanted. When I told them what i wanted, they made the destination delivery price so expensive that it didn't make sense buying the vehicle I wanted. At the end of the day, I ended up buying from a dealership out of state. Still paid the same registration and taxes and paid for my own delivery which was cheaper than the local guys. Still had to go through dealer, still took advantage of the promotion.. Didn't by pass them all....
Majority of the people don't even know what options are available. In all promotions and marketing only the top of the line and upgraded version is used everywhere. Most of the people don't even know that they can get base model without any bells and whistles for far less than a upgraded option. Also, Japanese car dealers have no issue moving inventory. The demand is quite high. If everyone wants upgraded fully loaded mode, why would the manufacturers even make base models?
Whats wrong with working for Korean company?
You can goto a website and build and price a car without sending your personal info to anyone. I absolutely refuse to share my email address with dealers, too. (Or any other business as I agree that the spamming by them and most every other kind of retail business is ridiculous.) Just build & price what you want and there is a print button to make a copy of it. Then walk in and hand it to your dealer(s), fax it to them, email it to a salesperson directly and not their generic spamming dealership email, etc.
If they don't have what you want than nothing is stopping you from ordering one exactly like you want, and you wouldn't need to spend the extra money to ship-it in from another dealer, either. If you needed that car RIGHT NOW and could not wait for a couple months to get an ordered unit then so-be-it, nothing wrong with that, but I just don't think it's fair to gripe about dealers stocking what works for them. It is darn near impossible to stock every type of model & options that would appeal to everyone. Dealer lots would need to be five times the size of today to park all those cars. You make it sound like they stock what doesn't sell - on purpose - just so they can scam people to buy what they don't really want. That is so incredibly far from the truth.
I don't know how to help those who can't spend 5 minutes online to figure out what options/models are available, etc. If you spend thousands of dollars and can't do this then I don't know what to say. Hell, I needed a new lawnmower this year, haven't bought one in 15 years, and I don't know anything about lawnmowers. So I went to the web and learned what I needed to. Not that hard... every automaker has all the model/options info anyone would need to find on a given car or truck.
..... Dealer lots would need to be five times the size of today to park all those cars. You make it sound like they stock what doesn't sell - on purpose - just so they can scam people to buy what they don't really want. That is so incredibly far from the truth.
....
Actually, it is not uncommon for a dealer to have in stock one ugly duckling. It is usually ordered for a sales promotion, is priced at a rock bottom level, and the dealer hopes it does NOT sell. It might be missing an expected option, or more likely, an odd ball color.
They are great deals for those that want just a new vehicle, and don't care about the options.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
once the dealership has been provided your info, the influx of spam calls start. 
