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But I am sure you realize that there are some car brands where that is not possible. It sounds like you have limited yourself to cars that you COULD take home the same day.
You couldn't do that with many of the Japanese Supercars during their hay-day, nor with many high end cars today, they only keep one or two of the expensive (exclusive) cars on the lot.
My local BMW dealer has exactly 1 (one) BMW M8 on the property; it is Blue, if you wanted red, you would have to order one delivered.
Supercars? M8's? Don't forget Rolls-Royce that are bespoke.
God forbid that hundreds of people will be unable to obtain one of these today.
Now, in the real world where many millions of us live, I don't have to limit myself.
Through the magic of the internet, I can find what I want easily and just go buy it.
Part of the problem is as cars get more complicated with more computerized controls and emission-related components on them (especially diesels) your independent shops just can't work on these cars as much anymore. Same goes for hybrids and electrics - you think Joe Mechanic down the street is going to be able to fix a Tesla with battery problems or a GM Diesel pickup with DEF System issues? Nope....
The tools and training required to learn how to repair some of these vehicles keeps skyrocketing. In addition, some of these tools are only available to dealers of that particular brand. Manufacturers do not want independent shops messing around inside the complicated electrical/engine/emissions systems so even in states with "Right to Repair" laws the independent guys still can't afford to get these tools, etc. Because of this, the number of independent shops has slowly been decreasing over time on gas vehicles, and has really gone down dramatically on alt-fuel and diesel vehicles. The future may mirror the heavy truck business, where most of the dealers do the heavy repair & electrical work and the independent shops are limited to doing oil changes, brake jobs, etc.
Except all that is just part of the mechanism for manufacturers protecting their dealerships. You assume dealers have the market cornered for great technicians and everyone else is Joe Mechanic? And if it can't be done, how is Tesla able to service their cars, every bit as sophisticated as any car make/model?
Again, just let direct sales complete without legislation and regs artificially making their lives more difficult, and let them and their customers worry about service. Those who prefer the old school dealer sales/service model, so be it. What are they afraid of, competition?
Except all that is just part of the mechanism for manufacturers protecting their dealerships. You assume dealers have the market cornered for great technicians and everyone else is Joe Mechanic? And if it can't be done, how is Tesla able to service their cars, every bit as sophisticated as any car make/model?
Again, just let direct sales complete without legislation and regs artificially making their lives more difficult, and let them and their customers worry about service. Those who prefer the old school dealer sales/service model, so be it. What are they afraid of, competition?
Tesla is a Manufacturer just like Ford or Toyota so they are all lumped into the same bucket when it comes to repairing their vehicles. Their service centers, just like Ford and Toyota dealers, will be the primary means for electrical and heavy repair jobs as time goes on. Independent shops will primarily handle light repair and maintenance.
Tesla and Ford will typically pay their mechanics more than independent shops, too, so they will get the best techs. This is how things are right now in the Heavy Truck industry.
It's better for consumers to purchase vehicles directly from the manufacturer. Consumers will not pay the MSRP, they will pay the dealer invoice. Tne manufacturer sells the vehicle to the dealer at invoice. The dealer then marks the price above invoice and sells it to the consumer. The manufacturer will simply cut out the middle man in the dealer and offer the same invoice price to the consumer. So I fail to understand why you do not think consumers will benefit from purchasing from the dealer?
There are exception when the dealer will sell the car at the invoice price. The most common reason is the dealer receivers rebates or money from the manufacturer to sell a certain model or year. The dealer will pretend they are not making any money because they are selling it to you at or just below invoice. The only the time the dealer offers the car at invoice is if they are trying to make room for newer models.
Everything you said is 100% accurate. I cannot believe this is not common knowledge. People are fooled into thinking they are getting a deal from the dealer versus the manufacturer who will "sell at MSRP" People are really uneducated on this topic. I couldn't believe the OP even posted this. I would have been embarrassed but judging by the responses, a lot of others are equally ignorant.
Dealerships will be a thing of the past. There will be select manufacturer owned centers to test drive vehicles and then people will just order their vehicles on-line. I ordered my last car on-line and it was an amazing and simple procedure with no haggling or games. You get exactly what you want to without having to pay for useless upgrades you don't use.
Consumers shouldn't pay "dealer invoice" and those who do are leaving money on the table, sometimes a lot of it, too. The manufacturers also do not sell the car to the dealer for "dealer invoice," either. Dealer cost does NOT equal dealer invoice. Lastly, saying the manufacturer would "offer the same invoice price to the consumer" if dealers weren't around is definitely not true, either.
If dealers went away, the manufacturers would have to charge the customers more than what they used to sell to dealers in the past. The cost would go up for sure - it's just a matter of how much. This is because manufacturers would incur additional expenses (land, buildings, employees, benefits, insurance, floorplan interest, etc) that they didn't have before.
Who did you order your last vehicle online from? What make and model was it?
It's better for consumers to purchase vehicles directly from the manufacturer. Consumers will not pay the MSRP, they will pay the dealer invoice. Tne manufacturer sells the vehicle to the dealer at invoice. The dealer then marks the price above invoice and sells it to the consumer. The manufacturer will simply cut out the middle man in the dealer and offer the same invoice price to the consumer. So I fail to understand why you do not think consumers will benefit from purchasing from the dealer?
There are exception when the dealer will sell the car at the invoice price. The most common reason is the dealer receivers rebates or money from the manufacturer to sell a certain model or year. The dealer will pretend they are not making any money because they are selling it to you at or just below invoice. The only the time the dealer offers the car at invoice is if they are trying to make room for newer models.
Everything you said is 100% accurate. I cannot believe this is not common knowledge. People are fooled into thinking they are getting a deal from the dealer versus the manufacturer who will "sell at MSRP" People are really uneducated on this topic. I couldn't believe the OP even posted this. I would have been embarrassed but judging by the responses, a lot of others are equally ignorant.
Dealerships will be a thing of the past. There will be select manufacturer owned centers to test drive vehicles and then people will just order their vehicles on-line. I ordered my last car on-line and it was an amazing and simple procedure with no haggling or games. You get exactly what you want to without having to pay for useless upgrades you don't use.
When you ordered your last car online, you ordered it from a dealer, not a manufacturer, unless it was a Tesla. That dealer decided at what price they would sell it. That dealer prepared the car and that dealer delivered it to you. The manufacturer was not involved in the transaction in the slightest.
The dealer that you bought it from has a facility and employees and is prepared to service your car, as are the other dealers franchised by the manufacturer. Auto manufacturers have no desire to be retailers and do everything possible to avoid doing so. At times because of dealer failure or local market conditions manufacturers are forced to take over dealerships and run them for a period until they find a more capable dealer to operate that location. They endeavor to do this as quickly as possible because they have no desire to be retailers.
Tesla is a Manufacturer just like Ford or Toyota so they are all lumped into the same bucket when it comes to repairing their vehicles. Their service centers, just like Ford and Toyota dealers, will be the primary means for electrical and heavy repair jobs as time goes on. Independent shops will primarily handle light repair and maintenance.
Tesla and Ford will typically pay their mechanics more than independent shops, too, so they will get the best techs. This is how things are right now in the Heavy Truck industry.
Tesla is not a manufacturer just like Ford or Toyota. Ford and Toyota make money by manufacturing vehicles which are sold through a traditional dealer channel. Tesla loses money on every car they make and sell themselves. The more they make, the more money they lose. How sustainable do you believe the company is? What happens when their investment stream dries up? Their inability to meet sales targets is actually a benefit as it slows down the hemorrhaging of their capital.
Tesla is a Manufacturer just like Ford or Toyota so they are all lumped into the same bucket when it comes to repairing their vehicles. Their service centers, just like Ford and Toyota dealers, will be the primary means for electrical and heavy repair jobs as time goes on. Independent shops will primarily handle light repair and maintenance.
Tesla and Ford will typically pay their mechanics more than independent shops, too, so they will get the best techs. This is how things are right now in the Heavy Truck industry.
You aren't acknowledging the difference between Tesla and Ford and other automakers. Tesla relies on direct sales only while servicing their cars, Ford is still relying on the status quo dealer model. Tesla is not "just like Ford or Toyota."
Quote:
Originally Posted by kokonutty
Tesla is not a manufacturer just like Ford or Toyota. Ford and Toyota make money by manufacturing vehicles which are sold through a traditional dealer channel. Tesla loses money on every car they make and sell themselves. The more they make, the more money they lose. How sustainable do you believe the company is? What happens when their investment stream dries up? Their inability to meet sales targets is actually a benefit as it slows down the hemorrhaging of their capital.
Good point, the answer remains to be seen. Amazon didn't seem to be a profitable business for years, and Apple didn't either between Jobs - but they had the last laugh. The jury is still out on Tesla.
Tesla is not a manufacturer just like Ford or Toyota. Ford and Toyota make money by manufacturing vehicles which are sold through a traditional dealer channel. Tesla loses money on every car they make and sell themselves. The more they make, the more money they lose. How sustainable do you believe the company is? What happens when their investment stream dries up? Their inability to meet sales targets is actually a benefit as it slows down the hemorrhaging of their capital.
Tesla makes cars so they are a manufacturer just like Ford or Toyota. That's what I meant. The one difference is Tesla (for now) retails the cars themselves so I guess you can say Tesla is a Manufacturer AND a Retailer.
I'm not a Tesla fan in any way and they are going to need some help to prevent their bubble from bursting. I have a couple friends who work there and the stories are interesting. Model S is good but Model X has been plagued by issues and their warranty costs are very high on those. The company continually loses money and burns through cash. It will be interesting to see what happens when the Model 3 actually gets produced as that will cause them to burn even more cash on a regular basis. Their current cash-burn is not sustainable and they need to figure out how to make money on their own. Right now investments and cash from Musk is what's keeping them afloat. Tesla on it's own is a poor financial performer at the moment.
Interesting many posters on here do not understand the topic. The topic has nothing to do with whether people should or should not be able to identify and avoid falling prey to dealer sales antics. It is not a question of "well it is their own fault for being stupid." This thread is about what dealers add if anything to the process of buying a car.
The concept that people are stupid if they end up paying too much or buying a bunch of thins they do not need/want, does not indicate dealers contribute anything, it is merely saying they take money form less sophisticated people (usually meaning, young, elderly, or first time buyers). to me that is not saying they add anything to the process, it is saying they hurt the innocent. That is hardly an argument for keeping dealers.
I have yet to see one person say they walked into a dealer and drove out in the exact car they wanted. As mentioned, dealers stock loaded vehicles with options that make the most profit for them, not necessarily what you want. You have a choice, drive out in a car with a different set op options than what you wanted, or have the dealer order one/dealer trade for it (which takes a few days. (Which is no different than ordering the car you want on the internet).
Dealers do a few things, they clean the car for you before you pick it up. However even setting aside the upselling/over charging to make extra money, I simply do not see anything dealerships add to justify the customer paying for buildings/rent, insurance, advertising, overhead, commissions, salaries of salespersons, receptionists, cleaners, janitors, etc. I can pay someone to clean my car every week for years with the cost of paying for all of that.
That fact is costs must be reduced, and the outdated and no longer necessary retail network is one obvious place to do that. They are not needed, just another layer of overhead. I realize there are some people who are worried about protecting their jobs, but like every businesses that becomes out dated and disappears, you will find other work. If you are good at sales, there are endless opportunities, and if you are a mechanic, there will always be broken cars to fix.
It is really a matter of time. Discussions here are not going to change the fact that dealerships are no longer sufficiently useful to justify the massive expense and will disappear. In fact, my guess would be the argument on this thread will likely last longer than the dealership model does.
I wonder whether car mechanics will eventually end up going the way of the electronics/appliance repair shops. Will we reach the point where cars do not really break much until it is no longer with repairing them? Will mechanics shops eventually become the occasional oddity in small towns? People will say that is impossible, it will never happen, but people would have said the same thing about appliance/electronic repair shops. It is just too big of an investment for people to start tossing them out when they break. When is the last time you had a TV repaired?
Sure there are still shops around, but they are not ubiquitous they way the once were. Appliance or electron repairs is rarely if ever a vocational education subject anymore. Although cars now cost as much as a house, they have lower failure rates. Many cars now make it to 200,000 miles without needing anything major. As technology advances, that is likely to improve. Maintenance intervals are getting further and further apart. As we move toward electric motors, cars have fewer maintenance and repair needs.
What do you think, will mechanics shops become something of a rarity like appliance/electronics repair shops in 20 years?
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