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I think it’s amazing how Toyota has basically sold the same truck for almost 15 years...and it’s still a pretty nice truck with great resale value despite lacking some modern features. However, the F150 does sound like the best truck now especially after discounts.
I believe a new Tundra is just around the corner and if Toyota plays things the same, the 2021 or whatever will be very nice and very competitive. Toyota doesn’t redesign stuff often but when they do it seems they do it in a way to make a vehicle competitive for many years. The rumor is a 450hp/30 mpg twin turbo hybrid powertrain...I’d never trust such new complexity from Ford/GM/Dodge, but from Toyota? Yeah I probably would. Toyota knows they’ve slipped behind and they probably still want more market share so I won’t be surprised if they pull out all the stops on a new Tundra...they are still the ones with something to prove.
With that said, if the current Tundra just got 25% better fuel economy I’d buy it over any other truck...probably a army green TRD Pro crew cab. All the fancy dodads they have now are nice but reliability is still #1 for me.
Toyota has already thrown in the towel when it comes to competing in the full size truck segment. As soon as they brought Tacoma production into San Antonio that was the nail in the coffin. The only way Toyota can now sell any more than they do (in meaningful numbers) is to kick out the Tacoma or build a new plant, and neither one of those two things is happening anytime soon.
I am familiar with the next Tundra program and it's evolutionary, not revolutionary if you catch my drift. The dealers are pretty bummed about it.....
Toyota has already thrown in the towel when it comes to competing in the full size truck segment. As soon as they brought Tacoma production into San Antonio that was the nail in the coffin. The only way Toyota can now sell any more than they do (in meaningful numbers) is to kick out the Tacoma or build a new plant, and neither one of those two things is happening anytime soon.
I am familiar with the next Tundra program and it's evolutionary, not revolutionary if you catch my drift. The dealers are pretty bummed about it.....
Honestly though - as a buyer I’m not terribly concerned with sales numbers...if Toyota keeps up with reliability/resale they will continue getting first consideration. Give the Tundra a mild refresh with better gas mileage and I’ll be content. However, my money is on Toyota cracking the whip on the truck market instead of going quietly into the night. Persistence is key when you’re the “new” guy. I’ll believe Toyota has given up when they announce they are discontinuing the Tundra.
My guess is that no automakers are giving up on trucks in this good economy/low gas prices market.
I believe the 2007 Tundra was a raging success. Only the most diehard fanboys (typically older people) won’t at least give the Tundra props as a decent full size truck. Attitudes toward the Tundra were quite different in 2006. Toyota doesn’t need a revolution to that extent this time.
Honestly though - as a buyer I’m not terribly concerned with sales numbers...if Toyota keeps up with reliability/resale they will continue getting first consideration. Give the Tundra a mild refresh with better gas mileage and I’ll be content. However, my money is on Toyota cracking the whip on the truck market instead of going quietly into the night. Persistence is key when you’re the “new” guy. I’ll believe Toyota has given up when they announce they are discontinuing the Tundra.
My guess is that no automakers are giving up on trucks in this good economy/low gas prices market.
I believe the 2007 Tundra was a raging success. Only the most diehard fanboys (typically older people) won’t at least give the Tundra props as a decent full size truck. Attitudes toward the Tundra were quite different in 2006. Toyota doesn’t need a revolution to that extent this time.
This perceived reliability/resale with the Tundra is off base. The fact is the vehicle is not their best foot forward and never has been. That has nothing to do with being a fanboy - the truck's specs and chassis/powertrain is just not competitive to what's out there today. Anyone who says otherwise is just a blind Toyota loyalist.
Prior to the bigger Tundra being released in 2007 they sold about 125K Tundras per year. Since 2007 they have only eclipsed that number twice, in 2007 and 2008. Even with a bigger and supposedly better Tundra they have not sold more than what they used to sell. They spent about a billion dollars on the new Tundra - you don't spend that kind of money and expect to sell less than you did before.
2007 sales = 196K (first year of new product)
2008 sales = 137K
2009 sales = 79K
That's horrible. I know the recession was during that time but even after the recession they are stuck in the 100-120K sales per year range with no plans to try to increase that. Toyota is basically making a half-***** attempt at making a truck and counting on people buying it due to the brand name - they aren't even trying to make a top-notch pickup.
Here are some recent direct quotes from Jack Hollis and Bob Carter regarding the Tundra's future:
- "We made some choices… of full-on capacity - what we would be able to build. We made some choices as a business entity to push Tacoma. That's the fact of the business."
- "It's capacity. San Antonio is at maximum capacity, maximum overtime. We worked 46 Saturdays last year. We are choosing - because it's our strength - to build a higher mix of Tacoma than Tundra."
- "Some of the competitors are doing 700,000, 800,000, 900,000 units. If your ultimate question is, is that our plan? No. We have no aspirations, no plans to compete at that volume. Can we do better than we're doing today? Absolutely. We can do better than that, but it's not in our plan to be running some of the fantastic volumes that Ford, Chevy and Ram are developing."
This perceived reliability/resale with the Tundra is off base. The fact is the vehicle is not their best foot forward and never has been. That has nothing to do with being a fanboy - the truck's specs and chassis/powertrain is just not competitive to what's out there today. Anyone who says otherwise is just a blind Toyota loyalist.
Prior to the bigger Tundra being released in 2007 they sold about 125K Tundras per year. Since 2007 they have only eclipsed that number twice, in 2007 and 2008. Even with a bigger and supposedly better Tundra they have not sold more than what they used to sell. They spent about a billion dollars on the new Tundra - you don't spend that kind of money and expect to sell less than you did before.
2007 sales = 196K (first year of new product)
2008 sales = 137K
2009 sales = 79K
That's horrible. I know the recession was during that time but even after the recession they are stuck in the 100-120K sales per year range with no plans to try to increase that. Toyota is basically making a half-***** attempt at making a truck and counting on people buying it due to the brand name - they aren't even trying to make a top-notch pickup.
Here are some recent direct quotes from Jack Hollis and Bob Carter regarding the Tundra's future:
- "We made some choices… of full-on capacity - what we would be able to build. We made some choices as a business entity to push Tacoma. That's the fact of the business."
- "It's capacity. San Antonio is at maximum capacity, maximum overtime. We worked 46 Saturdays last year. We are choosing - because it's our strength - to build a higher mix of Tacoma than Tundra."
- "Some of the competitors are doing 700,000, 800,000, 900,000 units. If your ultimate question is, is that our plan? No. We have no aspirations, no plans to compete at that volume. Can we do better than we're doing today? Absolutely. We can do better than that, but it's not in our plan to be running some of the fantastic volumes that Ford, Chevy and Ram are developing."
I never said the Tundra is class leading in any way or that it’s any kind of sales leader. I simply said that starting in 2007 Toyota legitimized themselves as an extremely capable full size truck producer. That alone doesn’t guarantee sales in such a brand loyal segment, but it definitely goes a long way toward redefining their image in the segment and laying the groundwork for future trucks 5, 10, 20 years down the line. Starting in 2007, the Tundra was no longer a truck that “manly” men could snicker at.
Now that I think about it - the butt hurt due to Toyota’s fire breathing 381hp V8 in 2007 was kinda funny. A lot of brand loyalist were totally caught off guard.
I don’t have any data but I bet a lot more people will consider a Tundra now. Of course that doesn’t mean they’ll buy a Tundra because there are 5 other good/great full size trucks on the market. The Silverado/Sierra/F150/Ram have been significantly updated/redesigned several times since the Tundra debuted in ‘07. Therefore it’s no real shocker that Toyota only sales around 120k units yearly.
If one visits a Tundra forum there are owners that will in detail explain why they purchased a Tundra. Not everyone that buys one is some kind of blind loyalist.
As far as sales - who cares? Toyota obviously sees a reason to continue producing the Tundra...and I guarantee they’ll be producing it in 2020, 2021, 2022...etc, etc. I have no idea what Toyota’s return on investment has been on the Tundra, but I guessing it’s a profitable vehicle to produce. If nothing else they likely learned a lot during their first real attempt at entering the segment. The Tundra is now a bonafide full size pickup.
I’m actually kinda shocked that Toyota has sold so many Tundras. Despite being way overdue for a redesign they’ve consistently sold about 118k Tundras for the last 6 years.
As a consumer - I don’t care if Toyota ever reaches “big 3” volume (sounds like Toyota doesn’t care either). I simply like having choices and I look forward to seeing what Toyota does next with the Tundra. Competition is good for the consumer.
BTW - looking at sales year-by-year, the “new” Tundra would’ve shattered sales of the old model if not for the recession. Success if not for timing?
Considering all automakers had a ~30-40% reduction in truck sales, Toyota’s recession adjusted numbers would’ve likely been something like:
2007 - 196k
2008 - 137k—>185k
2009 - 79k—>160k
With no recession and no significant updates, Tundra sales would’ve likely slowly declined to
where we are today...around 120k/year.
Heck, in 2009, even F150 sales were down 40% from 2007. Who knows what percentage were actual retail sales.
The recession makes it impossible to compared 2007/8/9 Tundra sales to previous years.
Here’s a bet - if the economy is still doing well in a few years, I bet Toyota will crush their previous Tundra sales record and move at least 225,000 new/updated models in their first year.
BTW - looking at sales year-by-year, the “new” Tundra would’ve shattered sales of the old model if not for the recession. Success if not for timing?
Considering all automakers had a ~30-40% reduction in truck sales, Toyota’s recession adjusted numbers would’ve likely been something like:
2007 - 196k
2008 - 137k—>185k
2009 - 79k—>160k
With no recession and no significant updates, Tundra sales would’ve likely slowly declined to
where we are today...around 120k/year.
Heck, in 2009, even F150 sales were down 40% from 2007. Who knows what percentage were actual retail sales.
The recession makes it impossible to compared 2007/8/9 Tundra sales to previous years.
Here’s a bet - if the economy is still doing well in a few years, I bet Toyota will crush their previous Tundra sales record and move at least 225,000 new/updated models in their first year.
In 2018, a Ford F-150 or Super Duty pickup was sold every 29.3 seconds, on average. Ford sold nearly 1.1 million trucks globally in 2018, and we can't say we're too surprised.
but a brand new truck for basically the cost of fees and taxes , plus 0% financing for 72 months is hard to pass up. Not to mention the technology is much better as is the gas mileage
Thoughts or opinions.?
IF . . . this is a legitimate deal. Then take it as fast as you can. Get the new truck.
A NEW truck versus a 2 owner used truck with 100,000 miles. That's a no brainer!
Listen up though. These "deals" are being done nationwide by most new car dealers. I constantly get letters/emails stating that my local dealer is "looking" for good used trucks . . . and that if I trade my used truck in . . . I will get a "good" deal.
When time comes for another new truck - the Ford will be newer AND with 100,000 less miles on odometer. And a one owner truck - not a 2 owner used truck.
Are these "deals" a scam/incentive to get you into the dealership to bait and switch you into a more expensive truck ?????
All I know is that my 2013 Tundra pulls a trailer with a tractor and bush hog, and a fully loaded 16' tandem axle dump trailer just fine, and it does it reliably. That's more than 95% of non-commercial full size truck owners will ever do with their trucks.
In its most capable form, that is, equipped with the 3.5-liter EcoBoost V6, but in non-Raptor guise, the F-150 has a towing capacity of 13,200 pounds and offers a max payload of 3,270 pounds. In its least capable configuration, which is equipped with the 3.3-liter V6, the F-150 can tow up to 7,700 pounds and haul up to 1,990 pounds.
Equipped with the more powerful 5.7-liter V8, the Tundra can tow up to 10,200 pounds and offers a max payload capacity of 1,730 pounds. Equipped with its base-level 4.6-liter V8, the least-capable Tundra's towing and payload capacities are 6,800 pounds and 1,600 pounds, respectively.
Overall, the F-150 can tow and haul more than the Tundra in all comparable configurations, while also offering greater fuel efficiency.
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