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I think it’s tied to the cell balancing. They try to keep all of the cells balanced, but when you have a few that are bad it throws the whole thing out of whack.
Manufacturers replace individual sections under warranty because it cheaper for them to do that. Out of warranty, they seem to want you to replace the whole pack.
I have been reading that the Tesla Model 3/Y battery pack has 4,416 cells in it. Even if the likelihood of a cell going bad is low, with that many of them, you better have awesome manufacturing process control and QC if you want a low total probability of a failure in the pack. And it would still be better to have a "robust" battery pack design that could tolerate some cell failures.
With or without core charge, pick and pull used battery or new. For a new battery that's not bad. Most of the old battery is probably fine. I'd have it torn out and use it for a battery backup for the house.
If it's just 22k to exchange one old battery that doesn't work for another old battery that does work, well, no way that's worth it. Should be able to junk it to someone to harvest the battery for something and move on.
You have to know how to do it, because a problem with Lithium-Ion batteries is that they don't react well extreme heat (a short circuit, for example). That's why they aren't charged fully to 100%. If one of the cell experiences a short circuit, the whole battery could catch afire. Also, Lithium and water don't mix well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTJh_bzI0QQ
I have been reading that the Tesla Model 3/Y battery pack has 4,416 cells in it. Even if the likelihood of a cell going bad is low, with that many of them, you better have awesome manufacturing process control and QC if you want a low total probability of a failure in the pack. And it would still be better to have a "robust" battery pack design that could tolerate some cell failures.
Even one cell malfunction can disrupt the entire circuit. I can only assume that an EV battery is designed so that groups or packs of cells are separate from each other in the circuit, and each pack is connected in parallel. This way if a cell inside of a pack malfunctions, then you just have to remove and repair the affected pack.
May be possible to get a million miles if you get them in before the battery gets too old. But, an old battery is an old battery, I don’t think it matters much it if has 75k miles or 275k.
For it to be a million mile car Tesla needs to either have plans for retrofitting their older, worn out cars with current packs or have some plans for repacking to old one with new cells. Tesla may not itself be the company that repacks old packs with new cells, but they need to partner with some companies that do so on an official level.
They sort of had that with the Roadster but that was a complete disaster with people waiting for years after Tesla announced they were going to offer that on the Roadster with Tesla repeatedly missing deadlines and delaying replacement. A handful of people have had it done, but they need to have an actual system in place to do that in a timely manner rather than on a case by case basis where it takes years.
Tesla never sold very many Roadsters and a Model S or 3/Y is not a drop in since they won't physically fit. Supposedly the S/X and 3/Y were all built with that modularity in mind, however, and it is possible to drop in a 2021 battery into a 2012. It probably wouldn't be as simple as just dropping it in as you'd need to do software updates and maybe replace some other things but the theory behind the million mile claim was always that it could be done. Of course Tesla has a history of not living up to what it says it will do from 35,000 Model 3 to FSD to the second gen Tesla Roadster to upcoming promises like the 25,000 FSD car by 2035 to the under 50,000 dual motor Cybertruck coming out this year.
AKA Mars Colonies. I doubt there will be a sub 50,000 dual motor Cybertruck with over 300 miles range produced this year. They've probably got their hands full on more realistic goals like coming out with the 120k and 150k Plaid and Plaid+ models and meeting demand for Model Y, the midcycle refresh on the S and X, and so on. After that is probably the pickup. My guess is more 2023 and 70,000 than under 50,000 for the 300+ range dual motor. Then they might get around to the 2018 second gen Roadster. Where exactly the past million mile claim fits in that and how much of a Mars Colony it is, I really don't know. Maybe it isn't at all and they can just drop a 2021 pack in a 2012 already with minimal fuss.
This guy's Tesla S is out of warranty and his battery has failed.
Now, he has to pay $22,000 plus tax for a replacement battery.
The problem here, in my view, is not that the battery needs replacement. It's Tesla's business model, and why I won't buy Apple products either.
Tesla and Apple products are closed black boxes. There are no independent (or very few) independent service shops. You can't go your local auto parts store and get Tesla parts, and you can't go to your local computer repair shop and buy Apple parts. The closed repair model means no competition. Tesla and Apple can set whatever price they want to for service and parts. It's similar to a monopoly.
I assume that once the non-Tesla EV's become more commonplace, you'll see independent repair shops and you'll be able to go to RockAuto and order a battery online, with multiple 3rd party non-OEM battery choices available. I also expect a niche performance parts market where you can replace your OEM battery with a higher output "performance" version and/or 3rd party electric motor upgrades.
The problem here, in my view, is not that the battery needs replacement. It's Tesla's business model, and why I won't buy Apple products either.
Tesla and Apple products are closed black boxes. There are no independent (or very few) independent service shops. You can't go your local auto parts store and get Tesla parts, and you can't go to your local computer repair shop and buy Apple parts. The closed repair model means no competition. Tesla and Apple can set whatever price they want to for service and parts. It's similar to a monopoly.
I assume that once the non-Tesla EV's become more commonplace, you'll see independent repair shops and you'll be able to go to RockAuto and order a battery online, with multiple 3rd party non-OEM battery choices available. I also expect a niche performance parts market where you can replace your OEM battery with a higher output "performance" version and/or 3rd party electric motor upgrades.
It seems that the same business models of Apple, Tesla, etc., are being adopted by a lot of companies these days. This is primarily done for liability and other economical issues. Camera manufacturers do the same, and so all other auto makers. If you know how, you can take a brand new Apple product and transform it any way you want, but once you do that Apple won't owner the warranty nor assume liabilities. All of that is passed down to you.
Computer manufacturers are soldering RAM and other components to the motherboard, and soon one won't have other options but choose the computer you want or need, and this computer is put at the factory. You won't be able to upgrade it, just replace it with another one.
The problem here, in my view, is not that the battery needs replacement. It's Tesla's business model, and why I won't buy Apple products either.
Tesla and Apple products are closed black boxes. There are no independent (or very few) independent service shops. You can't go your local auto parts store and get Tesla parts, and you can't go to your local computer repair shop and buy Apple parts. The closed repair model means no competition. Tesla and Apple can set whatever price they want to for service and parts. It's similar to a monopoly.
I assume that once the non-Tesla EV's become more commonplace, you'll see independent repair shops and you'll be able to go to RockAuto and order a battery online, with multiple 3rd party non-OEM battery choices available. I also expect a niche performance parts market where you can replace your OEM battery with a higher output "performance" version and/or 3rd party electric motor upgrades.
Yea, and I sort of expect it to get worse in some ways. Apple can do some great product design partially because they're building them to a very tight design spec that isn't very flexible or modular. Tesla is like that, but maybe slightly less so (though it also has its own proprietary charging cable!) right now. The structural battery packs that Tesla has been saying will greatly reduce costs and increase battery density to me also means that third party support and mods are going to be harder to do compared to the modularity they have now with their battery packs which have been fantastic for the EV conversion scene. If they get built into the packs and are structural though, I reckon this means that's not going to be quite so possible. I also think this is why it's important that there are a bevy of other EV automakers out there to compete which can take on different directions aside from this. Tesla can be the Apple of the EV world, but there needs to be alternatives.
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