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Lets not make this like AK is similar to other states...
That's what RayinAK seems to be doing, trying to impose his biases formed from his sub-Arctic environment on the rest of us in the lower 48. There are good reasons why an EV may not be the most optimal choice for Alaskans, but they don't apply to most of us down here.
Lets not make this like AK is similar to other states - only 20% of the state is accessible by road and there are only 12 highways in the entire state that is more than 2x the size of TX and bigger than 22 smallest states combined. Even the state capital, Juneau is not accessible by road. Over 40% of the population is in Anchorage - there is not much population or road accessible areas outside the railroad belt area.
The Model Y uses waste heat given off by the battery and the drive motor to make it much more efficient when below -10C - see details
I'm not making it into AK is similar to other states--you responded to RayinAK talking about Alaska, so the context was about Alaska. I fully agree that Alaska is an edge case with a tiny fraction of the US's population and the vast majority of the US's population is in places where that transition to plugins is pretty easy.
Yes, the Model Y and that octovalve thing is a really impressive heat pump, but a 100F temperature differential between what's outside and what you want in a cabin is a large difference that does mean the waste heat from an ICE powertrain's inefficiency isn't exactly going to waste as much so the comparison isn't going to be quite as favorable for EVs as they would pretty much anywhere else in the US.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK
All good for Tesla buyers, but keep in mind that Tesla is not the only EV manufacturer. Also, Alaska has been used as an example of places where it gets very cold, but also about long driving distances without electricity and charging stations. Northern Russia, Central and South America, and even Africa have been mentioned in relation of long range EV travel.
Right, there are a lot of EV manufacturers and the industry is going to advance rapidly.
Northern Russia kind of makes sense in terms of a similar comparison for cold and long distances, though the vast majority of Russia's population is actually in the humid continental climate classification (or warmer) that is generally more forgiving than what you have in Fairbanks, so for the majority of Russia's population EVs will probably be fine since they seem to be doing decently in Quebec and Scandinavia, but I agree there will be parts of Russia where it will take substantially longer for EVs to make sense compared to the most populated parts of Russia. One thing to note is that Russians generally fly or ride the trains to go long distances.
I don't quite understand the Central and South America and Africa references. The problem for them is more the current cost of vehicles than anything about climatic conditions that would be particularly bad for EVs. Most of these countries have far more electrical production resources than petroleum resources (and really, all petroleum resources can easily be electrical production resources, but the converse isn't true), and their climates aren't well below freezing for the most part. China seems to be particularly keen on developing an export market for cheap EVs to developing countries around the world, and may very well beat US and European companies to the punch. It would seem that if the OP's posted article is accurate about a coming tipping point for general price parity, EVs would likely start taking off for those countries as well though a lot of those countries have their fleets consisting of a lot of older used vehicles from developed countries, so there'll be a decade or two time lag.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 03-01-2021 at 02:44 PM..
[*]The EV's can catch afire, and so any other automobile.
[*]The electricity can be expensive in some places, and not too expensive in other places.
[*]Should all automobiles be electric (ICE would not exist) our electrical infrastructure at the present time, could not handle such as load increase. But since the great majority of vehicles in the US have ICE's that don't need charging, we still can get by.
[*]Too little range for some, but not for all. All depends on how far you drive each day, and the availability of charging stations.
[*]Too expensive for some, but not for all. If you can afford to get rid of an ICE automobile that is already paid for and is mechanically sound, and then buy a brand new $30,000-$150,000....go for it!
[*]Some people say that EV's are golf carts, and in a way that is true since golf carts run on battery power. But then, lots of other vehicles run on battery power, including some forklifts, and also automobiles.
[*]And yes! The present electric automobile battery is one of the most expensive components in the vehicle. And so is an automobile ICE.
Let me fix that for you
- EV catch fire less than 10% as often as any other vehicle so really quite different as far as frequency.
- On average an EV is much less to fill than an ICE vehicle - my place in CA, the cost to fill is about $7.50 vs about $60 for equivalent in gas - in NV, my cost to fill is about $3.50 vs $50.
- The electric generation capacity in the US runs at just over 50% capacity. Converting all vehicles to EV would increase electricity use to about 60%. Studies show that current generation capacity and infrastructure could handle the additional load.
- Range on EVs can exceed 400 miles and most places chargers exist to extend that to unlimited but 98% of car trips are less than 30 miles.
- The Model 3 is available at $37K which is almost 10% less than the average new car in the US of $40.1K, many other EVs are much less with up to $7.5K tax rebate.
- EVs drive like any other car except faster off the line - only thing that is much like a golf cart is no need to change gears - push the throttle and go.
- Batteries are an expensive part of an EV, just like the drive train of an ICE vehicle - still the cost of an EV is about the same as an ICE vehicle and battery prices are going down while ICE component costs are getting more expensive.
Our electrical infrastructure won't be able to handle the increased load (as if the infrastructure is incapable of being enhanced by the power companies.
Not much of a novelty when a Tesla is one of the most popular cars sold - it is the number 4 most popular car in 2020 behind the Corolla, Camry and Civic and ahead of Accord, Altima, Fusion, Malibu and the rest. https://automotivemap.com/best-selli...rebelltitem111.
No the most popular car in the US is the F-150, followed by the Silverado and then in third place the ram 1500.
these are the furthest things from a Tesla you could possibly get.
Read the links - the data (and I) said 4th most popular car in the US. Those vehicles are pickups and guess what, pickups are NOT cars.
I would say a spaceship is the furthest from a Pickup but they are not cars either but both Tesla and SpaceX vehicles are built by Musk companies and share technology.
Also you are wrong for in CA - the Model 3 beat all vehicles including every Pickup and SUV in sales in CA.
I guess you can't comprehend that the Tesla is NOT a novelty or niche vehicle like you said.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddeemo
Read the links - the data (and I) said 4th most popular car in the US. Those vehicles are the furthest things from a car because, guess what, pickups are NOT cars.
Also you are wrong for in CA - the Model 3 beat all vehicles including every Pickup and SUV.
I guess you can't comprehend that the Tesla is NOT a novelty or niche vehicle like you said.
You really can't go by CA, land of high gas prices and the most extreme environmental laws. In the whole USA Tesla sales were not even in the top 25, nor was any other EV. Total EV sales in CA were still only 8.3% in 2020.
You really can't go by CA, land of high gas prices and the most extreme environmental laws. In the whole USA Tesla sales were not even in the top 25, nor was any other EV. Total EV sales in CA were still only 8.3% in 2020.
Other than the Tesla 3, EVs are garbage or super expensive.
Referencing back to the OP--will this still be the case in a few years when battery prices have come down and EVs with larger capacity packs for more range and faster charging are roughly the same price as their ICE counterparts.
Also, the Taycan is great and very comparable to its Panamera counterpart, and the refreshed Bolt has a much lower MSRP and looks like an Iron Man bobble head.
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