Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
From where around the world are the automakers buying the cheaper EV batteries?
AS I mentioned before, the only way for reducing the cost of EV batteries is by having them built in places where labor is cheaper, which is exactly what is happening today. But in years to come every product made (not only batteries) is going to cost more unless made with readily available renewable resources. Non-renewable resources such as metals have individual market values, and these values increase from year to year, as well as labor costs.
While the price of EV batteries has come down, it will still be one of the most expensive component in an EV.
Globally, most EV battery production is in China with some in South Korea, Japan, Europe, and the US. The US should honestly be doing better on this front, but thus far the only major EV battery production occurring in the US is in Nevada with only a few other battery production plants under construction in the US though those are pretty large plants. That being said, since the vast majority of EV sales in the US are Tesla vehicles with supposedly 79% of EVs registered in the US being Teslas and all Teslas sold in the US use batteries produced at the Reno, Nevada, USA plant, the majority of EVs in the US have batteries produced in the US. The other two higher-selling EVs in the US, though not with nearly as many sales as the Tesla vehicles, are the Bolt and the Leaf, and they have their batteries produced in South Korea and Japan respectively.
Are you sitill ignoring the fact that changes in battery chemistries and processes have meant that there is less labor and less materials per kWh of battery capacity? Why are you ignoring this point over and over? Is it difficult to understand? Let me know if you see this! Try bold-ing it or responding to it! It's odd that you're still saying that the "only way" for reducing the cost of EV batteries is building in places where labor is cheaper when that's very clearly inaccurate. The majority of EVs sold in the US are with batteries made in the US, so are you arguing that the US and Nevada has incredibly cheap labor costs and that's why the cost per kWh from even the consumer's side of things has gotten cheaper for Tesla vehicles?
I'm not ignoring that labor is getting more expensive or that materials are getting more expensive with the continued increase in demand, but if it takes substantially fewer "units" of labor and kgs of material for each kWh of battery capacity produced today compared to a decade ago then how does that square with saying the "only way" to reduce the cost of EV batteries is finding cheap labor? It's evident in the spec sheets for these battery packs that one should expect improvements in battery costs per kWh over the last decade--which is *exactly* what happened over the course of the last decade through actual purchase prices made by automakers and is evident in the greater kWh per dollar one can buy their vehicles for as a consumer today than at the start of the 2010s. The proof is in the pudding. Will that maintain for a while where it keeps improving and improving faster than labor and materials becoming expensive? It seems like a lot of places are projecting it will, but who knows. What we do know though is that the last decade has made it obvious that moving to cheaper labor areas is not the "only way" for reducing the cost of EV batteries.
Anyhow, it's looking more and more likely that plugins will hit double-digit new vehicle market share in the US in the next few years. That's a pretty short term projection so there's less fuzziness in projecting that. EVs are being introduced en masse in the crossover and SUV forms that Americans seem to like a lot and so at the end of this year supposedly there's going to be a bevy of them available with the Tesla Model X, Tesla Model Y, Ford Mach E, Chevrolet Bolt EUV, Volkswagen ID.4, Audi e-tron, BMW X3 PHEV, BMW X5 PHEV, Volvo XC90 Recharge, Volvo XC60 Recharge, Hyundai Kona EV, Kia Niro EV, Lincoln Aviator PHEV, and Toyota RAV4 Prime available now and the Nissan Ariya, Audi Q4 e-tron, Ford Escape PHEV, Lincoln Corsair PHEV, Hyundai Ioniq 5, Hyundai Tuscon PHEV, Hyundai Santa Fe PHEV, Hyundai Kona PHEV, Kia EV6, Rivian R1S, Volvo XC40 Recharge, and probably a few others I'm forgetting being released this year. It's a lot! I expect that some automakers will have difficulty ramping production up over the course of this year and even the next, and some will simply not sell very well, but it is a lot of models being made available in a short amount of time and in segments that are very popular in the US.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 04-08-2021 at 03:30 PM..
Maybe. They might build 100 models and 100 vehicles of each model.
GM has a lot of existing plants and a lot of experience in many different aspects of creating a vehicle which is more than just the powertrain. They also through its joint ventures in China and through the Bolt have a good lot of experience in building EV powertrains. I don't doubt that they'll introduce several luxury vehicles that won't sell in huge numbers (like that six figure Cadillac Celestiq full size sedan) and that GM will continue its strategy of essentially selling the same vehicle with Chevrolet, GMC, and Cadillac badging which GM will almost certainly individually count as separate models, but I wouldn't be surprised if they have some bona fide hits. One thing to note is that supposedly the best-selling EV in China, which is a major EV market, right now is from a GM joint venture: https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/20/2...nuary-february
I think Mary Barra's doing a pretty good job steering a massive ship with a lot of inertia. Also, anyone who cites Camaros as their favorite cars of all time probably have a good head on their shoulders.
I used to think EV's were a joke until I drove one. Since they are better to drive than gas, I see now why they will likely dominate in 10 years. If technology solves the charge time issues and drives the cost of batteries down, we're not going to see anybody making gas cars anymore, because nobody will want one after driving an EV. The market moves according to who buys new cars. People who only get used cars will have no choice but to get what other's already bought.
The process for battery production is highly automatable. Much easier than PC board assembly or other more complex assemblies. I did or directed the design of such for around 25 years.
Your article only describes one of the numerous versions. And that is likely all obsoleted for the solid states batteries coming next. And I do not think anyone will repair the cells...only the packs.
And in volume the repair will have little labor. You are confusing a job shop to a factory.
Agree. But automated processes apply to all products made with machinery, not just to batteries. For example, the old way was to have a technician soldering every component on a circuit board by hand, using a soldering iron. That is not longer the case these days, specifically in areas of mass production. The reason for automated systems is to reduce construction time, but you still need humans to maintain and repair the automated systems, which include the creation of software that make the machines work, and even retooling, plus materials. Also, these workers aren't the average low-wage Joe working at the assembly line.
The mining industries are looking into the future of mining, where machines and automated systems can replace humans, at least in environments that are the most hazardous. But humans are the ones developing and integrating such systems and machines, plus repairing and maintaining them.
All that is being done is switching labor hours from humans to machines, but the machines are still very expensive. In relation to market value, it does not matter if a gadget is made by a machine or a human. What matters is the cost of the materials used, in this case metals and plastics. Now, plastics are cheaper since in addition to petroleum, plants can be used to produce plastics. Regardless of types of EV batteries, at the present time we don't have the technologies needed to avoid using minerals.
I used to think EV's were a joke until I drove one. Since they are better to drive than gas, I see now why they will likely dominate in 10 years. If technology solves the charge time issues and drives the cost of batteries down, we're not going to see anybody making gas cars anymore, because nobody will want one after driving an EV. The market moves according to who buys new cars. People who only get used cars will have no choice but to get what other's already bought.
i wonder how many people go back to driving gas after they got an electric. i have had my model y for almost 7 months now and i have no interest in a gas car again. when i think about a super fast "dream" car, i think of a model s plaid. i visited family recently and drove his gas volkswagon and i just no longer like the feeling of the gas engine or the sound. i am completely without an agenda, i dont care if people buy electric or not (prefer they dont). so im not trying to convince anyone of anything.
i wonder how many people go back to driving gas after they got an electric. i have had my model y for almost 7 months now and i have no interest in a gas car again. when i think about a super fast "dream" car, i think of a model s plaid. i visited family recently and drove his gas volkswagon and i just no longer like the feeling of the gas engine or the sound. i am completely without an agenda, i dont care if people buy electric or not (prefer they dont). so im not trying to convince anyone of anything.
I would go back to gas if it stayed down below 2.89 a gal for prem.
i wonder how many people go back to driving gas after they got an electric. i have had my model y for almost 7 months now and i have no interest in a gas car again. when i think about a super fast "dream" car, i think of a model s plaid. i visited family recently and drove his gas volkswagon and i just no longer like the feeling of the gas engine or the sound. i am completely without an agenda, i dont care if people buy electric or not (prefer they dont). so im not trying to convince anyone of anything.
Yes, that's the biggest shift I am talking about. This isn't about saving the planet anymore. This is about which cars are better to operate. That is going to win over a critical mass of holdouts. I still have gas cars but they are my last gas cars.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
