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I'm happy to see mass adoption of EVs. Mechanics will rarely be visited and small gas FWD cars, e.g. VW Golf, will be replaced with small electric RWD cars, e.g. VW ID3. And the joy of avoiding nasty gas stations is a beautiful thing. Then there will be the lack of oil stains in every parking lot and driveway.
I happen to like ALL cars, not just EVs. And I get angry at people who spew misinformation about ANY of them because they ruin the hobby and make it harder for other people to make informed decisions.
Last edited by PJSaturn; 03-11-2021 at 09:38 AM..
Reason: a little too snarky. He's going on ignore, instead
I don't consider 40 - 60 miles generous range, and the "green" benefits are an unnecessary illusion.
Average mileage of a car in the US is 12-15k miles per year. That's 33 miles a day. 60 miles is generous range in a PHEV because it covers 100% of daily driving range (commuting plus errand running) for MOST people, then for those times you absolutely must go farther, the gas engine is available. My Volt, with it's 40 mile EV range, covered all my commuting and errand running needs, and it was ready to drive to TN or upstate NY at a moments notice. Most of the time, however I only put 6 gallons of fuel in for 6 months of driving and cost me $10 a month in electricity to commute every day with.
Average mileage of a car in the US is 12-15k miles per year. That's 33 miles a day. 60 miles is generous range in a PHEV because it covers 100% of daily driving range (commuting plus errand running) for MOST people, then for those times you absolutely must go farther, the gas engine is available. My Volt, with it's 40 mile EV range, covered all my commuting and errand running needs, and it was ready to drive to TN or upstate NY at a moments notice. Most of the time, however I only put 6 gallons of fuel in for 6 months of driving and cost me $10 a month in electricity to commute every day with.
That's a great use for an EV. SHORT commutes and around town errands. If your driving is mostly limited to those, an EV makes a lot of sense. I see them as a great SECOND car just for this type of driving. However, many can not justify two cars so ICE car covers all their driving.
PHEV, with the gasoline engine, is still somewhat an ICE vehicle, but I think they make a lot of sense. I also think hybrids are a good alternative as gas prices rise.
Where did you get your electrical engineering degree? I spent my career doing product design and development including consumer electronics like cable modems and alarm panels with lithium batteries. Not a car but I’ve fought the wars with lithium batteries. A software bug and they burst into flames. I’ve had to troubleshoot “puffy battery” more’n once.
It ain’t faux. I’ve actually done this for a living.
That's a great use for an EV. SHORT commutes and around town errands. If your driving is mostly limited to those, an EV makes a lot of sense. I see them as a great SECOND car just for this type of driving. However, many can not justify two cars so ICE car covers all their driving.
PHEV, with the gasoline engine, is still somewhat an ICE vehicle, but I think they make a lot of sense. I also think hybrids are a good alternative as gas prices rise.
A Tesla Model 3 LR gets 350 miles. This is a cost issue. The price for that level of battery hasn’t come down enough yet to be competitive in mass market cars. The price of lithium ion battery packs has dropped 10x in a decade. It was ~$1,200 per KWH in 2010. It’s about $135 now. It needs to drop somewhat below $100 to start building mass market cars with reasonable range. The wonderful world of industrial engineering to knock cost out of something. A Tesla 3 LR has an 82 KWH battery. It’s ~ $10k at today’s prices. It needs to be $5k to make an EV like that affordable. Comparable to an internal combustion car. There’s no reason to believe prices won’t drop in half over the next decade. It’s reasonable to think that an EV version of a Camry or Civic with 350 mile range will be similar cost to the gasoline version. It will also do zero to 60 in muscle car time so there will be a market rejection of that dog slow gasoline version.
That's a great use for an EV. SHORT commutes and around town errands. If your driving is mostly limited to those, an EV makes a lot of sense. I see them as a great SECOND car just for this type of driving. However, many can not justify two cars so ICE car covers all their driving.
PHEV, with the gasoline engine, is still somewhat an ICE vehicle, but I think they make a lot of sense. I also think hybrids are a good alternative as gas prices rise.
Word.
It works better in an urban environment where there is more city and stop and go driving. Less practical for highway and mountain driving.
My friend has had two Volts (both generations). I got to drive the later version. It was nice to drive (though rather cramped). He said he filled up once a month. However, I asked about the range if he took it out on a long trip and he said only about 250 miles due to the 8 gallon gas tank.
Most people I know buy them because they can get the carpool sticker to drive in the carpool lanes solo in CA.
My friend now has a new Rav-4 plug in hybrid. I'm anxious to see how that works for him. But I think he paid at least $45, maybe $50k for it (top of the line, it was over MSRP). Decided to buy that over a Tesla 3/Y (snicker).
I don't consider 40 - 60 miles generous range, and the "green" benefits are an unnecessary illusion.
The 40 miles is only the battery range, once the battery is depleted the engine acts as a generator and lets you keep driving as long as you can get gas.
That's a great use for an EV. SHORT commutes and around town errands. If your driving is mostly limited to those, an EV makes a lot of sense.
A lot of studies have been done. MOST people commute less than 45 miles round trip daily. And 99% drive under 100 miles round trip daily. PHEVs will work for most people as is, and modern BEVs will work for even more people if they look at their real world use realistically.
Yes, if you drive long distances daily, then they are not for you. But realize that that sort of use is an outlier even in the ICE car world.
Now, there aren't going to be any reasonably priced, capable work trucks on the new or used market for quite a while, so people like me who would want to replace their used 3/4 ton for trailer towing, won't be able to do that for many years. And there doesn't seem to be any affordable EV convertibles on the horizon, so I'll still be driving cars like my MINI Cooper JCW Roadster as a weekend toy. But for daily driving and road trip use, my Bolt is outstanding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic Romano
My friend has had two Volts (both generations). I got to drive the later version. It was nice to drive (though rather cramped). He said he filled up once a month. However, I asked about the range if he took it out on a long trip and he said only about 250 miles due to the 8 gallon gas tank
Weird, even my 1st gen Volt, pictured above, got 320 miles of range when combining EV and gas use (and I've tested that at 75 mph going up to upstate NY). The 2nd gens had even longer EV range, so their gas and EV combined range should be higher yet. And both of them had 8 gallon tanks.
And how big are you? The 2nd gens are bigger than the 1st gens, and even my first gen was plenty big inside in the front seats.
A Tesla Model 3 LR gets 350 miles. This is a cost issue. The price for that level of battery hasn’t come down enough yet to be competitive in mass market cars. The price of lithium ion battery packs has dropped 10x in a decade. It was ~$1,200 per KWH in 2010. It’s about $135 now. It needs to drop somewhat below $100 to start building mass market cars with reasonable range. The wonderful world of industrial engineering to knock cost out of something. A Tesla 3 LR has an 82 KWH battery. It’s ~ $10k at today’s prices. It needs to be $5k to make an EV like that affordable. Comparable to an internal combustion car. There’s no reason to believe prices won’t drop in half over the next decade. It’s reasonable to think that an EV version of a Camry or Civic with 350 mile range will be similar cost to the gasoline version. It will also do zero to 60 in muscle car time so there will be a market rejection of that dog slow gasoline version.
And the neat thing coming is the Goodenough/Braga Solid State Battery. Twice the energy density of the Li-ion. No fires. And a very long life. Braga suggested it will hit the market in 2022. Spectrum Report...
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