Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Honda has been a little slow in introducing EV products. But they plan to user their partnership with GM to introduce EVs on GM's Ultium platform in the short term, and in the late 2020s introduce vehicles on their own dedicated EV platform, and to transition to EV products entirely by 2040. https://www.npr.org/2021/04/23/99015...ectric-by-2040
Honda has been a little slow in introducing EV products. But they plan to user their partnership with GM to introduce EVs on GM's Ultium platform in the short term, and in the late 2020s introduce vehicles on their own dedicated EV platform, and to transition to EV products entirely by 2040. https://www.npr.org/2021/04/23/99015...ectric-by-2040
And the weird thing is that GM relies on LG Chem. So now you have both American and Japanese automakers relying on Korean batteries to make their cars work. SMH
And the weird thing is that GM relies on LG Chem. So now you have both American and Japanese automakers relying on Korean batteries to make their cars work. SMH
Yes, I can understand one can make the argument that's a mistake. You're less likely to be affected by geopolitics if you make them yourself, and in your "home country". Trying to excel in high tech battery design and production is not a trivial matter though, so I think there is also an argument to be made for partnering and/or outsourcing.
And the weird thing is that GM relies on LG Chem. So now you have both American and Japanese automakers relying on Korean batteries to make their cars work. SMH
Yea, the US dropped the ball on battery development and manufacturing despite having been where many of the chemical and manufacturing innovations were pioneered and discovered. We arguably did much of the same with semiconductor foundries and with solar panels. It's just a continuation of capping ourselves in the knee as part of a some good ol' economic BDSM. This board and others toss around the joke of EVs being toys running on duracell or energizer, but the real joke is that neither of those brands and their respective US companies are anywhere near capable of competing in the field.
Supposedly Tesla wants to get into production itself and has a pilot production plant and there are some promising companies with some interesting battery innovations but it's unclear if those companies will themselves be the ones to manufacture them. It's not too late in the game for the US to make a mark, but our track record over the last few decades for a lot of technologies we often pioneered isn't always great outside of software.
Norway's the country that currently has the largest market share of EVs and so there's maybe some insight to be gleaned for the shape of things to come for other countries. The markets already been at vast majority of new vehicle market share being plugins and going from low double-digits to above 80% happened really quickly. It's now probably going to take some time for that market to go from its current 85.1% market share to above 95% market share just as it took a while to get to double digit market share initially. What's interesting is that while full battery electric vehicles have continued growing, plugin hybrids (PHEVs) have been dipping quite a bit with EVs growing from 60.4% BEV market share May 2021 to 73.2% this past May and PHEVs shrinking from 22.9% market share to 11.9%. This is also being mirrored in other countries that aren't quite as far along the EV adoption curve.
Correct me if I am wrong, but isnot norway the place where electricity is almost 100% hydro and FREE and they sell almost all the abundant oil and gas to others? that is so GREAT for them.
Here in the US, were we live, 80% of the power ISOs are reporting we WILL have rolling blackouts this year, starting.....NOW.
I dont see as rosy as a future. The DOE has essentially given up. we cannot get our renewable installations to achieve more than 20% capacity over the course of a year. meaning, it failed. When the cali gov says 'ixnay on the uclearnay antplay utdownshay' - you know its eff'ed.
Correct me if I am wrong, but isnot norway the place where electricity is almost 100% hydro and FREE and they sell almost all the abundant oil and gas to others? that is so GREAT for them.
Here in the US, were we live, 80% of the power ISOs are reporting we WILL have rolling blackouts this year, starting.....NOW.
I dont see as rosy as a future. The DOE has essentially given up. we cannot get our renewable installations to achieve more than 20% capacity over the course of a year. meaning, it failed. When the cali gov says 'ixnay on the uclearnay antplay utdownshay' - you know its eff'ed.
Electricity is most certainly not free. I don't know where you got that from, though the vast majority of it is hydroelectricity. It does make a lot of sense for them to go EVs in terms of the essentially nationalized petroleum industries being able to be sold rather than just consumed domestically which is great for them as in recent years the sovereign wealth fund they put those oil profits into into rather than just making diesel and gasoline cheap has earned more per year than their oil exports have. The difficulty for them initially was that distances between cities were very long and mountainous and the climate is a bit chilly which puts a penalty on EVs (since there isn't a massive amount of waste heat to utilize for heating the vehicle and its occupants), but that's changed quite a bit with vehicle heat pumps being more common and larger capacity battery packs and with that Norway has remained the market leader and greatly helped by the factors you've mentioned along with, of course, the general advantages of EVs especially in regards to efficiency and the fact that there are many tried and true economical pathways to convert energy into electricity while there is far less of such for converting into adequate fuel for most mass production ICE vehicles.
However, it's not just Norway or oil-rich nations that's seeing EV market share going up and other powertrain types as mentioned in my post you're quoting. Sweden is also seeing similar trends despite *not* having oil wealth and was at 47.5% plugins new vehicle market share last month with 24.2% full battery electrics (BEVs), and 23.4% plugin hybrids (PHEVs). Here's France's. And China's. There are about a dozen or so countries that have hit double-digit EV market share at this point, but it's interesting to look at Norway since it's the market leader and a lot of these other countries appear to be roughly following similar adoption curve for market share with a bit of lag time. It looks like getting it around/above 5% really then starts kicking things off and that holds even though a lot of these countries are quite different from each other. The US was at 4% new vehicle market share last year.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,563 posts, read 81,147,605 times
Reputation: 57767
These European countries are a lot faster to adopt EVs because they are so small. No one is going to worry about range when they can cross the whole country in just 300 miles east to west as in Sweden, or even 600 miles across or up and down between borders in France. Here in the USA it's over 3,000 miles across, 1,400 north to south. Even North to south in California it's over 800 miles. With our interstate highway system people like to take long road trips here, always have and always will. The EV range anxiety and lack of charging on the highways is keeping most of us from buying them.
These European countries are a lot faster to adopt EVs because they are so small. No one is going to worry about range when they can cross the whole country in just 300 miles east to west as in Sweden, or even 600 miles across or up and down between borders in France. Here in the USA it's over 3,000 miles across, 1,400 north to south. Even North to south in California it's over 800 miles. With our interstate highway system people like to take long road trips here, always have and always will. The EV range anxiety and lack of charging on the highways is keeping most of us from buying them.
Yes, the European countries are physically smaller than the US. I think two other factors to consider though are that a large proportion of consumer vehicle drivers in both the US and in Europe rarely or even never go on very long distance road trips *and* the other part of that though is that a huge expanse of these countries are part of the Schengen area and road trips are a real thing in that area (and beyond, but it's *much* easier in that area) which means pretty long road trips are done within the area by people who do actually like doing long road trips. The Schengen Area from Portugal to the Baltics is over a couple thousand miles as the crow flies as is from the toe of the Italian boot to the top of mainland Norway (top to bottom Norway is after all about the same distance as Jacksonville, FL to Boston, MA) and highways in much of these are often in much better condition that what you find in the US. If it were just the UK which does have conditions very amenable to even early EVs, then I wouldn't think much of it as they are notoriously not part of the Schengen Area, their climate is almost all a nice oceanic climate in the sweetest spot of EVs for range, and there is fairly little elevation changes, but the UK is actually a bit further down on the list in terms of EV adoption though comfortably within double digit territory now. Meanwhile, China's neither part of Europe nor the Schengen area. Though again, long road trips are for from being the main use of consumer vehicles in the US or Europe.
Overall, I think it's doubtful that it's really the long road trips that are the main factor in the slower adoption rates in the US compared to other countries already in double digit market share territory, and it's a lot more likely that it's a combination of comparatively high prices of EVs over ICE vehicles in the US for what you get as well as lack of familiarity that's the main barrier to adoption though those will likely change relatively quickly. However, if you're right, then it's still quite likely that EV adoption rates spike up rapidly as the average range of new releases has been rapidly improving as well as the ubiquity and charge rate of EV chargers.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 06-06-2022 at 01:53 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
