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I don't think there is anyone who said that these subsystems don't draw power. However, the power drawn isn't very much in respect to range or total capacity. Saying traffic jams are a sore spot for EVs doesn't make much sense because the ambient draw for modern EVs with sizable battery packs is pretty minimal for these vehicles when you're in traffic and in many ways is substantially worse for an ICE vehicle. You specifically mentioned traffic jams in cold weather in the NYC metropolitan area--I have some experience with this as do others on this forum, and this is simply not a significant issue or source of power depletion for EVs in the area. Even on record cold days over the last 100 years it wouldn't be an issue as the power draw for maintaining a comfortable temperature while sitting in traffic isn't significant. NYC's metropolitan area is probably within the top ten among US metropolitan areas for EV adoption, so there's plenty of us who have actually had this experience in real life. Moreover, the significance of what power draw there is is decreasing as battery improvements drive the cost per kWh of capacity down making it more affordable to stuff larger capacity battery packs into EVs and meanwhile things like heat pumps are becoming more ubiquitous for EVs.
I do think a 24 hour idle mode with the heat on is interesting. People do go camping with their Teslas and there's a camping mode (and a dog mode if someone leaves their vehicle with their pets inside and the a/c on). I'd be curious to know what the records for that are now that all four Tesla models have heat pumps. Supposedly prior to that roll-out, camp mode in the long range models with freezing temperatures with the HVAC on consumed about 15% of the battery power in 8 hours, so you'd think that 24 hours should be doable if starting with a relatively full pack. You can also do that without breathing in fumes which is a bit of a bonus. I suppose this wouldn't work as well in Fairbanks, Alaska in the deepest depths of winter, but then again, don't you guys also have engine block heater plugs in a lot of places? Can't that with fairly little effort be used for keeping EV cabins warm and the battery pre-conditioned while parked (or "camping" in that parking space)? I know that some Scandinavian countries have been gung-ho about making engine block heater infrastructure for plug-ins, so I imagine there's some way to do the same in cold climates of the US.
Perhaps you are right, but numerous articles have been published relating to the EV battery power draw when the climate control is being used to maintain the cabin cool or warm, and what it does to the driving range. I am not making this up. Also, the use of heat pumps will indeed help reduce power draw. I am certain that most of these problems related to power draw by the accessories will be worked out in the years to come.
Perhaps you are right, but numerous articles have been published relating to the EV battery power draw when the climate control is being used to maintain the cabin cool or warm, and what it does to the driving range. I am not making this up. Also, the use of heat pumps will indeed help reduce power draw. I am certain that most of these problems related to power draw by the accessories will be worked out in the years to come.
This could be a pretty significant issue when the battery packs are small such that the power consumed by the HVAC system and loss through the battery pack being cold could result in an abysmally small usable range to the point where you might actually be in trouble. However, that's not really the case for a new EV these days.
This wasn't a problem for a Model S in the dead of winter in NYC stop and go traffic as far as I can recall several years ago, and it's even less the case now since these vehicles have bumped up range and battery capacity since then and now have heat pumps and double-paned windows. If it wasn't notable before all this, then it's almost certainly not notable now. I'm also not quite sure what the Car and Driver test is doing--if they already had the cabin temperature raised to what was considered optimal level for running the test, then why is part of the test putting the HVAC heating system on full blast and the seat warmers on HI? If you've already gotten the vehicle to a temperature you like, then why are you turning it into a mobile sauna? I'm sure there's somebody out there that does it, but it just doesn't seem to be a realistic use case for the most part.
Regardless, driving in stop and go traffic in NYC winters doesn't really take a notable hit for EVs as it's essentially leaning on the city driving part of the EPA rated range more than the highway driving part, and for the majority of EVs, it's generally the city driving range that's better. For ICE vehicles, it's usually the highway driving bit that's higher. That better "mileage" and the ability to do one pedal driving, to me, make a pretty compelling case for EVs over ICE vehicles in that situation. It doesn't make sense to me to cite this as a sore spot for EVs, because this is where it does obviously better than its ICE counterparts.
As for the larger argument about issues with the cold and EVs, that's right now mostly a dead argument for the majority of the US population. Norway's EV adoption rate has straight BEVs making up more than a majority of new vehicle market share and even Oslo which has moderate winters in the context of Norway has winters as cold or colder than where the vast majority of the US population lives. The issue is much more about the cost of EVs and Norway settles that by having incentives for EVs and high taxes for non-EVs making up a very large price differential. I argue that it's the price differential for the make and battery capcity you get that's really the issue in the US, and that's basically what the OP's linked article is addressing in that battery improvements, despite skyrocketing demand making a commensurate increase in price per kg of the raw materials for these batteries, have still been able to keep slashing the price per kWh. If this trend continues, which thus far looks likely to happen over the course of this decade, then that price differential will be made up and then some even without incentives. Meanwhile, in doing so, this has a chance of resulting in EVs being a reasonable choice even in Fairbanks, Alaska.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 04-20-2021 at 02:58 PM..
This could be a pretty significant issue when the battery packs are small such that the power consumed by the HVAC system and loss through the battery pack being cold could result in an abysmally small usable range to the point where you might actually be in trouble. However, that's not really the case for a new EV these days.
This wasn't a problem for a Model S in the dead of winter in NYC stop and go traffic as far as I can recall several years ago, and it's even less the case now since these vehicles have bumped up range and battery capacity since then and now have heat pumps and double-paned windows. If it wasn't notable before all this, then it's almost certainly not notable now. I'm also not quite sure what the Car and Driver test is doing--if they already had the cabin temperature raised to what was considered optimal level for running the test, then why is part of the test putting the HVAC heating system on full blast and the seat warmers on HI? If you've already gotten the vehicle to a temperature you like, then why are you turning it into a mobile sauna? I'm sure there's somebody out there that does it, but it just doesn't seem to be a realistic use case for the most part.
Regardless, driving in stop and go traffic in NYC winters doesn't really take a notable hit for EVs as it's essentially leaning on the city driving part of the EPA rated range more than the highway driving part, and for the majority of EVs, it's generally the city driving range that's better. For ICE vehicles, it's usually the highway driving bit that's higher. That better "mileage" and the ability to do one pedal driving, to me, make a pretty compelling case for EVs over ICE vehicles in that situation.
As I mentioned before, I am not making things up. Numerous reports about extreme weather EV driving have already been published, and also several other articles have been published relating to how to preserve driving range by not using the extreme temperature settings on the EV's climate control. You have to take into consideration that a lot of the vehicles accessories, not only AC/Heat are being used, but headlights, wipers, ad so on, all at the same time. Also, there are traction/stability controls, steering, ECU, sensors, brakes, tire sensors and system, battery cooling systems, etc., that are also energized when driving the EV.
It does not matter if you are driving in the city or the highway. While greater electrical power demand takes place driving up hill, or driving fast on the highway than what it takes place when driving slow in the city, the battery is still being discharged. Again, I am not making things up. The data has been published to inform the public of possible automobile buyers.
I posted this Department of Energy's article somewhere above. And yes, new EV's are being improved and incorporating systems that consume less power, but this article may help those who drive older EVs: https://www.energy.gov/eere/electric...e-temperatures
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Extreme weather - very hot or very cold - impacts range in EVs. The additional heating or cooling needed for passenger comfort requires more energy than more moderate temperatures would. Cold batteries also have greater resistance to charigng and do not hold a charge as well.
Based on nearly 10 million miles of data collected through the EV Project, researchers at Idaho National Laboratory found that variations in weather can affect the range of plug-in electric vehicles by more than 25%. They found all-electric Nissan Leafs driven in Chicago in the winter had 26% lower ranges (60 miles compared to 81) than those driven in Seattle in the fall. Similarly, they found that plug-in hybrid electric Chevrolet Volts driven in Chicago in the winter had 29% lower ranges (30 miles compared to 42) than those driven in Chicago in the spring.
EV manufacturers and research supported by the Department of Energy are improving temperature-control technology to compensate for some of these issues. For instance, several models are now available with battery heaters or other technology to heat the battery and improve efficiency in cold climates.
As I mentioned before, I am not making things up. Numerous reports about extreme weather EV driving have already been published, and also several other articles have been published relating to how to preserve driving range by not using the extreme temperature settings on the EV's climate control. You have to take into consideration that a lot of the vehicles accessories, not only AC/Heat are being used, but headlights, wipers, ad so on, all at the same time. Also, there are traction/stability controls, steering, ECU, sensors, brakes, tire sensors and system, battery cooling systems, etc., that are also energized when driving the EV.
It does not matter if you are driving in the city or the highway. While greater electrical power demand takes place driving up hill, or driving fast on the highway than what it takes place when driving slow in the city, the battery is still being discharged. Again, I am not making things up. The data has been published to inform the public of possible automobile buyers.
You are sort of making things up with the stop and go traffic in NYC in winter making any notable difference in EVs today. If you aren't doing it intentionally, then at the very least you're talking about older EVs with smaller battery packs where the hit is significant and there's less range to play with in the first place.
You aren't familiar with EVs, I understand that, but city and highway driving make significant differences for EVs in comparison to ICE vehicles. Remember, the EV powertrain is very efficient at all speeds, so the energy it takes to overcome aerodynamic drag that's a square of velocity greatly increases with fast highway driving and there's not as much of an optimal range like with an engine where even though an ICE vehicle likewise gets hit by aerodynamic drag, the engine may actually be operating at a more optimal RPM and thus have a more efficient conversion of fuel to wheel. EVs can see radical increases in energy consumption even with something like a 30 mph difference--even today, but especially with earlier EVs with limited range and when there was almost no fast charging, it is common advice to (safely) slow down on the highways a bit in order to greatly extend the usable range. Meanwhile, stop and go traffic and fast highway driving are pretty opposed to each other, and EVs are very well optimized for that because there's no idling loss of the powertrain and there is energy recovery from braking.
The data has been published and a lot of that data is already old. Think about what you had available for EVs a decade ago compared to now or even five years ago. It's a world of difference there in terms of average range and battery pack size both in what was available and for what price.
As for hilly driving--I have some experience with that in California. You'll get pretty worrying amounts of energy consumption going uphill and it will look pretty bad. However, my situations have usually been that if going uphill, I at some point go downhill as well rather than increasing in elevation in perpetuity. During that downhill period, I'm usually riding the elevation a bit with potential energy going down, but sometimes I brake if going too fast especially on winding mountain roads--that braking goes into the battery and in that instance you'll see that energy consumption rapidly reduced and you may actually end up with more energy in your battery pack at the bottom of the hill than at the top. Towing though? Yea, EVs are going to have a tough time with range on that one especially highway towing of bulky things, because aerodynamic drag hit EVs pretty hard and towing a load at highway speeds is a lot of additional drag.
Did that C&D test with cabin temperatures already warm, but deciding to go ahead and up the heat to full blast and the seat warmers to HI not seem like an odd thing to do that's not indicative of how people use their vehicles?
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 04-20-2021 at 03:26 PM..
The fact is that ICE vehicles can only turn about 15-20% of stored power into usable power. EVs are 80+% efficient.
So I will ask again, why on earth do we care how much stored energy a gas tank holds versus a battery if we are not trying to show how inefficient an ICE is in comparison.
Most internal combustion engines are incredibly inefficient at turning fuel burned into usable energy. The efficiency by which they do so is measured in terms of "thermal efficiency", and most gasoline combustion engines average around 20% thermal efficiency.
A Mini Cooper SE Hardtop has a 32.6 kilowatt-hour battery pack. Using 1 gallon of gasoline=33.7 kWh, we see that the energy is less than 1 gallon of gasoline. But the Mini Cooper can 108 miles combined city/highway. Try doing that with an ICE engine.
The efficiencies are all in the electrical grid and the US is way behind the investment that China is making. We need to make vast improvements in energy loss from electricity plants to residences.
Quote:
At the beginning of 2018, the State Grid Corporation of China (SGCC), the world’s largest power company, began work on a 1.1 million volt transmission line. This will be the largest transmission line in the world, capable of delivering huge amounts of power over thousands of miles from Xinjiang to Anhui.
“The Changji-Guquan +/-1,100kV project is a major technical step-up, making it the world’s highest DC voltage,” said Liu ZeHong, executive vice president of SGCC. The project is the first of its kind, but could be followed by many more crisscrossing Asia and the world. Already SGCC has plans for the construction of more ultra-high-voltage DC (UHVDC) lines both domestically and as part of its Belt and Road Initiative, a project that is aiming to increase Chinese-led infrastructure investment in more than 80 countries.
Ref: China’s mega transmission lines
By Molly Lempriere 06 Mar 2019 (Last Updated February 6th, 2020 13:03)
If the US had UHVDC lines like this, we could build giant power plants in the Nevada desert and transport the electricity anywhere in the WECC with little transmission loss.
Last edited by PacoMartin; 04-20-2021 at 03:34 PM..
You are sort of making things up with the stop and go traffic in NYC in winter making any notable difference in EVs today. If you aren't doing it intentionally, then at the very least you're talking about older EVs with smaller battery packs where the hit is significant and there's less range to play with in the first place.
You aren't familiar with EVs, I understand that, but city and highway driving make significant differences for EVs in comparison to ICE vehicles. Remember, the EV powertrain is very efficient at all speeds, so the energy it takes to overcome aerodynamic drag that's a square of velocity greatly increases with fast highway driving--there's not as much of an optimal range like with an engine where even though an ICE vehicle likewise gets hit by aerodynamic drag, the engine may actually be operating at a more optimal RPM and thus have a more efficient conversion of fuel to wheel. Meanwhile, stop and go traffic and fast highway driving are pretty opposed to each other, and EVs are very well optimized for that because there's no idling loss of the powertrain and there is energy recovery from braking.
The data has been published and a lot of that data is already old. Think about what you had available for EVs a decade ago compared to now or even five years ago. It's a world of difference there in terms of average range and battery pack size.
As for hilly driving--I have some experience with that in California. You'll get pretty worrying amounts of energy consumption going uphill and it will look pretty bad. However, my situations have usually been that if going uphill, I at some point go downhill as well rather than increasing in elevation in perpetuity. During that downhill period, I'm usually riding the elevation a bit with potential energy going down, but sometimes I brake if going too fast especially on winding mountain roads--that braking goes into the battery and in that instance you'll see that energy consumption rapidly reduced and you may actually end up with more energy in your battery pack at the bottom of the hill than at the top. Towing though? Yea, EVs are going to have a tough time with range on that one especially highway towing of bulky things, because aerodynamic drag hit EVs pretty hard and towing a load at highway speeds is a lot of additional drag.
Did that C&D test with cabin temperatures already warm, but deciding to go ahead and up the heat to full blast and the seat warmers to HI not seem like an odd thing to do that's not indicative of how people use their vehicles?
But I have admitted several times that Ev's are more efficient than ICE vehicles, and also something very important that you aren't paying attention to: for the EPA mile range numbers, combined driving mileage is used, for both EVs and ICE vehicles. These published numbers relate for driving under average or mostly ideal conditions. So we can argue day and night about driving ranges, but none of us can't ignore the the published reports. Well, if I were to buy an EV, or even and ICE vehicle, I would certainly pay attention to the published data before I spend my money.
There is nothing wrong with the US Government reports relating to what to do to improve the mileage range of any vehicle, be it EV or ICE. There are numerous organizations publishing the data for the benefit of the public, and this data includes driving in hot or cold weather.
But I have admitted several times that Ev's are more efficient than ICE vehicles, and also something very important that you aren't paying attention to: for the EPA mile range numbers, combined driving mileage is used, for both EVs and ICE vehicles. These published numbers relate for driving under average or mostly ideal conditions. So we can argue day and night about driving ranges, but none of us can't ignore the the published reports. Well, if I were to buy an EV, or even and ICE vehicle, I would certainly pay attention to the published data before I spend my money.
I referenced EPA's combined driving range already. It's a composite of city and highway driving ranges. I said that in the context of stop-and-go driving as when you have stop and go driving on a highway, your vehicle usage hews more closely to the city driving bit than their highway driving bit. For EVs, the city driving range is usually better than the highway driving range, so your mileage is going to be hew favorably compared to the combined rating. For ICE vehicles, the highway mileage is usually the better of the two, so since stop and go driving makes your actual driving hew closer to the city driving bit of EPA's rated mileage, it's therefore worse than expected.
I've already said this before, but maybe you have questions about this? What part of this is confusing?
I'm not ignoring the published reports--I'm stating explicitly what parts carry water and don't. If your reports are on EVs of older models as older reports would necessarily be, then it's obviously a different situation from new EVs today. The further back in time that report, the worse it gets. I even went into a specific question about the C&D link that you seem to be ignoring--how reasonable of a scenario is it for when you have your cabin temperature already warmed up to a point where it's comfortable that you then decide to drive ten miles on the loop with the hvac on full blast and the seat warmers on HI?
I think paying attention to reports is good and all, but they can be outdated especially with EVs now where a span of even a year can make large differences. If you're looking at old data, unless you are buying a used car, to inform yourself on these decisions, then you are actually misinforming yourself and making suboptimal decisions.
You are sort of making things up with the stop and go traffic in NYC in winter making any notable difference in EVs today. If you aren't doing it intentionally, then at the very least you're talking about older EVs with smaller battery packs where the hit is significant and there's less range to play with in the first place.
You aren't familiar with EVs, I understand that, but city and highway driving make significant differences for EVs in comparison to ICE vehicles. Remember, the EV powertrain is very efficient at all speeds, so the energy it takes to overcome aerodynamic drag that's a square of velocity greatly increases with fast highway driving--there's not as much of an optimal range like with an engine where even though an ICE vehicle likewise gets hit by aerodynamic drag, the engine may actually be operating at a more optimal RPM and thus have a more efficient conversion of fuel to wheel. Meanwhile, stop and go traffic and fast highway driving are pretty opposed to each other, and EVs are very well optimized for that because there's no idling loss of the powertrain and there is energy recovery from braking.
The data has been published and a lot of that data is already old. Think about what you had available for EVs a decade ago compared to now or even five years ago. It's a world of difference there in terms of average range and battery pack size.
As for hilly driving--I have some experience with that in California. You'll get pretty worrying amounts of energy consumption going uphill and it will look pretty bad. However, my situations have usually been that if going uphill, I at some point go downhill as well rather than increasing in elevation in perpetuity. During that downhill period, I'm usually riding the elevation a bit with potential energy going down, but sometimes I brake if going too fast especially on winding mountain roads--that braking goes into the battery and in that instance you'll see that energy consumption rapidly reduced and you may actually end up with more energy in your battery pack at the bottom of the hill than at the top. Towing though? Yea, EVs are going to have a tough time with range on that one especially highway towing of bulky things, because aerodynamic drag hit EVs pretty hard and towing a load at highway speeds is a lot of additional drag.
Did that C&D test with cabin temperatures already warm, but deciding to go ahead and up the heat to full blast and the seat warmers to HI not seem like an odd thing to do that's not indicative of how people use their vehicles?
The data above was published by the US Department of Energy, and if you read it you will notice that they speak of improvements being incorporated on new EVs to reduce power consumption. But there are a great number of EV's that are older and may not have heat pumps and other components that are now being utilized.EVE and ICE technology are evolving each day, so by 2021 some of the new automobiles will incorporate more power efficient components than the ones on the 2021 automobiles.
I have admitted several times that Ev's are more efficient than ICE vehicles, and also something very important that you aren't paying attention to: for the EPA mile range numbers, combined driving mileage is used, for both EVs and ICE vehicles. These published numbers relate for driving under average or mostly ideal conditions. So we can argue day and night about driving ranges, but none of us can't ignore the the published reports. Well, if I were to buy an EV, or even and ICE vehicle, I would certainly pay attention to the published data before I spend my money.
The data above was published by the US Department of Energy, and if you read it you will notice that they speak of improvements being incorporated on new EVs to reduce power consumption. But there are a great number of EV's that are older and may not have heat pumps and other components that are now being utilized.EVE and ICE technology are evolving each day, so by 2021 some of the new automobiles will incorporate more power efficient components than the ones on the 2021 automobiles.
I have admitted several times that Ev's are more efficient than ICE vehicles, and also something very important that you aren't paying attention to: for the EPA mile range numbers, combined driving mileage is used, for both EVs and ICE vehicles. These published numbers relate for driving under average or mostly ideal conditions. So we can argue day and night about driving ranges, but none of us can't ignore the the published reports. Well, if I were to buy an EV, or even and ICE vehicle, I would certainly pay attention to the published data before I spend my money.
I referenced EPA's combined driving range already. It's a composite of city and highway driving ranges. I said that in the context of stop-and-go driving as when you have stop and go driving on a highway, your vehicle usage hews more closely to the city driving bit than their highway driving bit. For EVs, the city driving range is usually better than the highway driving range, so your mileage is going to be hew favorably compared to the combined rating. For ICE vehicles, the highway mileage is usually the better of the two, so since stop and go driving makes your actual driving hew closer to the city driving bit of EPA's rated mileage, it's therefore worse than expected.
^that was directly in response to you talking about stop and go traffic in NYC on a cold day and how that's going to make a sizable impact on range. I don't think you have experience with this. I'm also not sure what part of this is confusing. Yea, you'll use a bit of power to maintain warmth in the cabin, but it's unlikely to be significant and is likely to be outweighed by the greater efficiency EVs have at lower speeds closer to the city driving EPA rating which is lower than the highway EPA rating (and since the combined rating is a composite of these two, it will be lower than the combined driving rating as well). What part of this is confusing to you?
You'll also notice that when I responded to your last message, you hadn't edited it to include the DOE link. Look at what vehicles are referenced in there. Obviously, we agree that old data about older models of car can be helpful for people buying those models. That link referenced the discontinued Chevrolet Volt and an older version of the Nissan Leaf which is already pretty long in the tooth. They also state that lowering the speed you're driving is one of the main ways to extend range--which is what I was saying with stop and go driving actually extending the range out for EVs even in cold weather because on one hand you're draining a bit of power to maintain the subsystems, but on the other hand, you're conserving a lot of energy by not having so much aerodynamic drag. Stop and go driving, like that you see in NYC, with the kind of winters you see in NYC, is not going to cause a notable drop in range or increase in power consumption compared to optimal weather conditions at normal highway speeds. You brought up this example, right? Furthermore, these vehicles now mostly have so much range that losing say 60 miles of range over what's a 30 mile trip isn't what it used to be. In a 2010 Nissan Leaf with 73 miles of range, that essentially means you aren't making it back (and back then, you had virtually no public fast chargers). In a 2020 Chevrolet Bolt with 259 miles of range though? Doesn't mean much as it's pretty much a non-issue.
The data above was published by the US Department of Energy, and if you read it you will notice that they speak of improvements being incorporated on new EVs to reduce power consumption. But there are a great number of EV's that are older and may not have heat pumps and other components that are now being utilized.EVE and ICE technology are evolving each day, so by 2021 some of the new automobiles will incorporate more power efficient components than the ones on the 2021 automobiles.
I have admitted several times that Ev's are more efficient than ICE vehicles, and also something very important that you aren't paying attention to: for the EPA mile range numbers, combined driving mileage is used, for both EVs and ICE vehicles. These published numbers relate for driving under average or mostly ideal conditions. So we can argue day and night about driving ranges, but none of us can't ignore the the published reports. Well, if I were to buy an EV, or even and ICE vehicle, I would certainly pay attention to the published data before I spend my money.
I see you edited and added a link that wasn't there when I first responded.
Great! You also notice that in pretty optimal conditions the actual range is also usually lower than the WLTP range because the WLTP range is usually pretty generous, though at least somewhat consistently generous compared to the EPA rating which allows automakers to choose to use one of two different kinds of tests and then also arbitrarily adjust down if they feel like it which makes EPA range pretty rough for comparisons among EVs. WLTP usually goes higher than what you actually get in real life driving, but at least it's the same test for all vehicles.
Anyhow, yea, that's a wide band of 13% to 30% less range than WLTP standard. It'd be interesting to see how they do against WLTP under optimal conditions, but overall, with the range these vehicles have, you're not looking at being stranded even if you have an uncommonly long commute for most of these. It's just a completely different world than a decade ago when ranges were just above 100 km even in optimal testing conditions. Now we get to worry about inexpensive subcompacts like the Renault Zoe having a real world winter range in Sweden of *only* 380 km. It's some pretty massive changes in a short time period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK
The data above was published by the US Department of Energy, and if you read it you will notice that they speak of improvements being incorporated on new EVs to reduce power consumption. But there are a great number of EV's that are older and may not have heat pumps and other components that are now being utilized.EVE and ICE technology are evolving each day, so by 2021 some of the new automobiles will incorporate more power efficient components than the ones on the 2021 automobiles.
I have admitted several times that Ev's are more efficient than ICE vehicles, and also something very important that you aren't paying attention to: for the EPA mile range numbers, combined driving mileage is used, for both EVs and ICE vehicles. These published numbers relate for driving under average or mostly ideal conditions. So we can argue day and night about driving ranges, but none of us can't ignore the the published reports. Well, if I were to buy an EV, or even and ICE vehicle, I would certainly pay attention to the published data before I spend my money.
You added another link! Fantastic. A 2020 link citing a report about hot weather and EVs in February 2019 that was challenged by Tesla (of course they would). Yep, hot weather can mean less range because HVAC usage will consumer power as we both know it does for ICE vehicles as well. Does it make EVs less usable? Not really if you have a large enough range to begin with.
Are you going to now say that stop and go traffic in hot weather in NYC is going to significantly impact range? It's still going to be a better outcome than it would be for a comparable ICE vehicle--even better because there's not the bonus waste heat usage for heating the ICE vehicle gets in winter and that's on top of what was already stated about stop and go highway driving being closer to city driving rated range/mileage, and the bonus of regenerative braking is still present. And it's also still going to be mostly a non-issue with newer EVs because the range and battery capacity for them are sizable these days.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 04-20-2021 at 04:55 PM..
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