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Ok, I've never seen a dedicated discussion on the EV's in reality, in the real world, in the world where many tow caravans, trailers and trailer tents, and there are many countries that are cold.
So for example, in the UK there are some months I use the heater in the car whilst travelling 100 miles in a day. It has been close to zero for some weeks now.
My trailer weight is 750kg empty and it's gross weight can be 3,500kg. I own a 2lt Turbo Diesel car and a large diesel works van. Both equally pull the trailer well, empty and full, and every so often, I tow a 1.8t digger in a plant trailer.
So, talk of these EV cars being forced onto everyone that can now do 500+ miles on a charge etc.. all sounds good, but in the real world, which EV car will replace my current car towing 3 tons with the heater on?
And many want to go on holiday towing a caravan.
How do EV's perform under these 'real life' conditions?
The Tesla Model X is rated to tow 5,000 pounds and even has a Trailer Mode that will automatically level the suspension and turn off rear proximity sensors (mostly) when towing a trailer.
That means the couple’s 3,800 pound 2017 R-Pod 180 shouldn’t be much of a challenge. But what no one tells you about towing a camper is that it takes vastly more energy (in juice or gas) than just driving around. Jenny reports that the trailer cut the range of their Model X by 45 to 60 percent depending on hills and wind, with Fred driving at 55 to 60 mph. Sometimes Fred said he even slowed down to 50 mph to make a stretch into a campsite at night on what was left of a charge in the battery. With the Model X 100D’s rated range of 295 miles, that meant they had to find a charger every 200 miles, if not sooner, or about every four hours of driving. Sometimes Supercharger spacing reduced that to 150 miles. Fred laughed that it was good to have sailing experience to anticipate how weather and winds, as well as elevation changes would affect range. They used a Tesla Range Optimizer app to help maximize their distance between charges. Overall, the efficiency meter on the Model X showed between 600 and 1,200 watt-hours per mile along the trip, depending on the conditions.
Ok, I've never seen a dedicated discussion on the EV's in reality, in the real world, in the world where many tow caravans, trailers and trailer tents, and there are many countries that are cold.
So for example, in the UK there are some months I use the heater in the car whilst travelling 100 miles in a day. It has been close to zero for some weeks now.
My trailer weight is 750kg empty and it's gross weight can be 3,500kg. I own a 2lt Turbo Diesel car and a large diesel works van. Both equally pull the trailer well, empty and full, and every so often, I tow a 1.8t digger in a plant trailer.
So, talk of these EV cars being forced onto everyone that can now do 500+ miles on a charge etc.. all sounds good, but in the real world, which EV car will replace my current car towing 3 tons with the heater on?
And many want to go on holiday towing a caravan.
How do EV's perform under these 'real life' conditions?
500+ miles on a single charge while towing 3,500 kg in zero degrees (Celsus? that's what I'm assuming as zero Fahrenheit is far colder) is going to be several years away. If that's a must have for you, then don't bother looking into it for the next few years, because there's almost no way the battery improvements will move to making that affordable within the next few years.
500+ miles on a single charge without towing in cold weather will start being available on high end cars this year or next year (I believe two standard deviations above the median price for the US is close to $90K USD). I'd expect that to be available for mid-range vehicles within the next few years. However, I wouldn't 500+ on a single charge while towing 3,500 kg in zero C weather to be available on the mass market for several years.
A Tesla will tell you how much of its energy consumption is being used to power the HVAC system. The Engineering Explained guy just did a 2500-mile cross-country road trip in his Model 3 in the dead of winter with temperatures dropping as low as 0 degrees fahrenheit. According to his readout his car used 8% of its energy keeping the cabin between 70 and 72 degrees. He also did a similar cross-country trip in the summer so he had a basis of comparison for how much overall energy loss there was in winter. I can't remember the exact number and I don't feel like scanning through the video again to find it, but IIRC that figure was around 18% more energy consumed in winter vs summer.
You can save some of that energy by keeping the cabin at a more modest temperature -- say low to mid 60s -- and use the seat heater as your primary source of warmth. Also, I believe newer Teslas have a more efficient heating system that doesn't use electrical resistance as its primary cabin heat source any more.
The Tesla Model X is rated to tow 5,000 pounds and even has a Trailer Mode that will automatically level the suspension and turn off rear proximity sensors (mostly) when towing a trailer.
That means the couple’s 3,800 pound 2017 R-Pod 180 shouldn’t be much of a challenge. But what no one tells you about towing a camper is that it takes vastly more energy (in juice or gas) than just driving around. Jenny reports that the trailer cut the range of their Model X by 45 to 60 percent depending on hills and wind, with Fred driving at 55 to 60 mph. Sometimes Fred said he even slowed down to 50 mph to make a stretch into a campsite at night on what was left of a charge in the battery. With the Model X 100D’s rated range of 295 miles, that meant they had to find a charger every 200 miles, if not sooner, or about every four hours of driving. Sometimes Supercharger spacing reduced that to 150 miles. Fred laughed that it was good to have sailing experience to anticipate how weather and winds, as well as elevation changes would affect range. They used a Tesla Range Optimizer app to help maximize their distance between charges. Overall, the efficiency meter on the Model X showed between 600 and 1,200 watt-hours per mile along the trip, depending on the conditions.
Right, it depends a lot on conditions. However, a couple of things to note are that the Model X is a luxury vehicle and so it's hella pricey and the other is that the video is from 2019 using an older Model X that had a rated range of 295 miles while the rated range of the Model X is now 360 miles, so supposedly the amount of time between charges has moderately improved in just a couple of years. However, that pace of improvement still means what the OP is asking for is at least several years away still.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 02-07-2021 at 01:11 PM..
Towing and Payload Capacity
Rivian says that every R1T can tow more than 11,000 pounds and the pickup offers a payload capacity of 1760 pounds.
And Ford truck EV can tow a train.
Right, and the Cybertruck is aiming for even higher towing capacity. EV powertrains right now can tow incredible loads and will be able to do so with smaller packages than their ICE counterparts. Electric motors are compact and efficient like that. However, the OP's focus seemed to be about range and EVs, like ICE vehicles, get hit with a significant loss of milage/range when towing very large loads. OP was asking for 500+ miles between stops which I assume is at highway speeds and with a 3,500 kg (~7,700 pounds) load which I think will take years before hitting mass production. Though to be fair, I'm not sure if there are all that many consumer vehicles EV or not that can tow 3,500 kg loads for 500+ miles at highway speeds without stopping.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 02-07-2021 at 01:09 PM..
Towing cuts the range of any vehicle by ~ 50%. The examples I’ve seen for EV towing (Tesla X and Y) show that with current battery technology it’s practical only if charging is available every 100 miles of so. In one test they arrived at their campsite with less than ten miles of range remaining. Good thing they had plug-in power available.
But what is the estimated range of the Rivian while towing that 11k lbs? They always seem to leave out that bit of info.
They (Rivian) has been saying that range is roughly halved when towing full capacity. I'm sure there'll be plenty of people testing this out though.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 02-07-2021 at 03:28 PM..
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