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Let's just say you have a 2009 Camry hybrid with 90k miles that has a bad hybrid battery. You can get a refurbished battery with a 4 year warranty for $2200. That is cheap enough that you can can replace the battery and keep driving the car.
On the other hand, if you were to have a 12 year old Chevy Bolt with the same miles that has a few bad cells, you will likely need a new (refurbished) battery pack. The cost for that will be so high that you might as well junk the car. Some will say you can get a used battery... well sure, you can, but then you pay several thousand for another old battery that could also go bad any day.
Of course, if you are the type to lease or trade every few years, this isn't a concern to you. People who buy older cars beyond the 8yr/100k battery warranty will be the ones to pay.
For me, cost is only one factor. Even if EVs are cheaper over the long term (maybe?), the TCO vs a hybrid is close enough that there's no need to mess with any of the drawbacks.
If we're only looking for lowest TCO, we'd all be riding around in 50cc scooters (I have one).
Let's just say you have a 2009 Camry hybrid with 90k miles that has a bad hybrid battery. You can get a refurbished battery with a 4 year warranty for $2200. That is cheap enough that you can can replace the battery and keep driving the car.
On the other hand, if you were to have a 12 year old Chevy Bolt with the same miles that has a few bad cells, you will likely need a new (refurbished) battery pack. The cost for that will be so high that you might as well junk the car. Some will say you can get a used battery... well sure, you can, but then you pay several thousand for another old battery that could also go bad any day.
Ever price a new BMW engine out of warranty from the dealer? Hell, even a Volkswagen or Toyota engine or transmission out of warranty if you have to buy it new from the dealer? Worrying about battery costs 10 years in the future is kind of silly. Especially as the costs are coming down rapidly. At present prices per kWh, a Bolt battery would be $6600. New. From the dealer. What do you think that would be in 8-10 years?
It's one of the few features I scoffed at as "frivolous" when I first experienced it (my dad's 1999 GMC Envoy) that has become an essential for me (I've had them installed in 3 cars that didn't come with OEM heated seats).
That said, I've always sort of viewed them as a luxury rather than a critical component of the heating system. At least around here, they're nice because they fire up very quickly (before the car gets up to temperature), but they're no substitute for the cabin being warmed to 65-70 degrees. I'm not particularly adverse to the cold, but I can't see relying on heated seats more heavily to offset the normal heating functions.
I showed my wife how to precondition the Bolt before taking her last road trip. Basically 15 minutes before heading out, we remotely started the car while plugged in and heated the cabin. Used 0 range to do so and when she got in to leave, the cabin was toasty warm and she still had full range left. Turned off the heat and set the seat and steering wheel heaters and she said it was comfy all the way.
Seat heaters have been a necessity for me and my wife for years. they take the edge off quickly. And the steering wheel really does it, as cold hands are the biggest component of feeling cold.
And seat heaters set on high work nicely in my MINI when the top is down on these sunny, but brisk, almost-spring days.
I survived 2 winters with a Tesla, I personally drive without the heater. I just use the seat warmer. I think it's stupid to wear a big jacket and have the heat running. When you only use the heat warmer while wearing a jacket it's good enough. I only turn on the heater when there's multiple people inside the car to prevent fogging.
The mileage definitely hurts in the winter and fortunately I have other cars besides Tesla.
My primary concern for towing with an EV pickup/SUV is simply the charging station situation. Not the number of them, but the layout of them. Same kind of problem I have with most gas stations, too.
the charging stalls are set up to pull into and park, either forwards or backwards, like a normal parking space. As shown in the pic of my Bolt charging on the way up to CT last week. The problem is, if you're towing a larger travel trailer (well, really any travel trailer) you're NOT going to fit in one of those stalls. IN order to get into a stall with a rig set up like my Suburban with a travel trailer on the back, you're going to block a whole row of those stalls in order to get close enough to charge your EV truck. That's something that will HAVE to get worked out by people who think far enough ahead. It's a simple problem to solve, but it IS a problem and I don't think anyone has thought of it yet.
Ever price a new BMW engine out of warranty from the dealer? Hell, even a Volkswagen or Toyota engine or transmission out of warranty if you have to buy it new from the dealer? Worrying about battery costs 10 years in the future is kind of silly. Especially as the costs are coming down rapidly. At present prices per kWh, a Bolt battery would be $6600. New. From the dealer. What do you think that would be in 8-10 years?
I've never priced an ICE engine because it's not a concern for 99.999% of ICE cars, where the rest of the car will fail before the engine. My first car was a 20 year old Honda Civic, one of my current cars is an 18 year old Toyota Camry, and if at any point I had to put $6600 in to it (plus labor), I'd consider the car a total loss. In contrast, I have looked at getting a used EV (most used are halfway or more to that 10 year mark) but the potential of having to replace a very expensive battery makes it a risky proposition.
I've never priced an ICE engine because it's not a concern for 99.999% of ICE cars, where the rest of the car will fail before the engine. My first car was a 20 year old Honda Civic, one of my current cars is an 18 year old Toyota Camry, and if at any point I had to put $6600 in to it (plus labor), I'd consider the car a total loss. In contrast, I have looked at getting a used EV (most used are halfway or more to that 10 year mark) but the potential of having to replace a very expensive battery makes it a risky proposition.
The problem is you fear it's GOING to be a bigger problem than in an ICE car. That's a fear born from a bunch of non-EV owners repeating it as an inevitability, when they don't look at the risk of a new engine or transmission in their own cars. I mean, it's not like transmission shops are going out of business working on ICE cars, right? And engine rebuilders and suppliers of new engines aren't going out of business, either, right? How about suppliers of low mileage used Japanese engines? There are a lot of those shops out there doing brisk business. I've gone through engines and transmissions in used cars. I have yet to need to replace batteries in my EVs. Yes, EVs haven't been around in useful form for more than 10 years yet, so there may indeed be issues in the early ones shortly. But, unlike many here say, it's NOT an inevitability or even a huge possibility. Batteries' lifespans are measured in full charge duty cycles, not age. And modern thermally controlled battery packs that don't use the top and bottom SOC tend to have less duty cycles on them than say, laptops and phone batteries. Or the early Leafs with their air cooled battery packs (that were notorious for degrading or dying altogether). Tesla batteries are modular, so you can replace parts of the battery pack rather than all of it, and people are starting to figure that out with Volts and Bolts, too. So that by the time these new cars are out of battery warranty, options will be available to the owners for new, used, or rebuilt.
Ever price a new BMW engine out of warranty from the dealer? Hell, even a Volkswagen or Toyota engine or transmission out of warranty if you have to buy it new from the dealer? Worrying about battery costs 10 years in the future is kind of silly. Especially as the costs are coming down rapidly. At present prices per kWh, a Bolt battery would be $6600. New. From the dealer. What do you think that would be in 8-10 years?
I have owned numerous vehicles through my life, and have never had to replace a transmission of any of these vehicles. I did replace the motor of a F-150 truck years ago. But the cost was under $1,000 for a "short-block" 300-inline six at NAPA.
The EV battery is one of the most expensive components in an EV, much like the control panel of a clothes washer. But what I don't understand is why so many people compare an EV battery to an ICE or a transmission. A battery is not a motor nor transmission. It's more like an ICE vehicles' fuel tank. The difference in cost between the two relates to how far on the road a battery will get you, compared to how far a tank full of gas will.
Yes, transmissions and motors are expensive, but so are lot of things. For example, body work.
Last edited by RayinAK; 03-15-2021 at 12:26 PM..
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