Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If they're talking about Alaska, I can't see anyone getting far with the heater on in a Tesla, and do Tesla's tow caravans and diggers?
AK is not the ideal place to have a Tesla although they will handle it. Also in an EV, you don't run the engine to keep warm. According to data - you lose about 15% in range when temps are like 0F (-18C) vs 70F but since colder, battery can charge quicker so very little time difference - the engineering explained guy has a video on that. ICE vehicles tend to lose range also in cold conditions. Also, most EVs have seat heaters which is much more efficient if want to save energy.
AK is not the ideal place to have a Tesla although they will handle it. Also in an EV, you don't run the engine to keep warm. According to data - you lose about 15% in range when temps are like 0F (-18C) vs 70F but since colder, battery can charge quicker so very little time difference - the engineering explained guy has a video on that. ICE vehicles tend to lose range also in cold conditions. Also, most EVs have seat heaters which is much more efficient if want to save energy.
The isolate villages depend on fuel for everything. During the summer villagers use boats, snowmobiles (so called, snow machines), chainsaws, and so on. Fuel and every other product is flown-in, or by boat during the summer, or even snowmobiles during the winter. Generators, boats, and things like that are very common. But most of the fuel is stored during the summer for winter use. Some villages are large enough for residents to have automobiles, schools, perhaps a clinic, a power plant, and so on, while other villages are too small to have much of anything, including electricity, sewage, and water. Wood stoves are very common in the small villages.
That said, isolated villages or populations aren't unique only to Alaska. Some of the posters in this thread are stating their points in relation to the places they live at, most of which are large cities and town that are in vicinity to other cities and towns. But that is not the case in a lot of places around the world, specially third world countries. While we have a lot of countries that are very rich and can afford gradually changing from ICE to EV, in most places around the world such things aren't possible.
During a natural disaster, the most reliable energy is oil (fuel). During a flood boats and helicopters can be used for rescue. During the fire season, firetrucks and aircraft can be used to rescue people and fight fires. Water to quench fires can be pumped from lakes, rivers, ponds, and so on, or just scooped up by the fire-fighting aircraft. All of these types of equipment run on fuel.
The thing that a lot of people fail to understand is that batteries and capacitors are electric storage devices that don't generate electricity. As such, batteries depend on power generating equipment. For the time being, coal, oil, and nuclear are the primary sources of energy. Solar, wind, and hydro-power can't replace those three sources because they depend on mother nature.
Also, we talk about all the clean air and lack of pollution we want for our nations (West), without thinking about the ground and air pollution we are creating around the rest of the world. It takes a lot of resources to mine our precious batteries, and we live a mess for others to deal with. We are over the industrialized nation era. China and a lot of countries around the world are now industrialized or becoming so, and its only a matter of time until we become dependent of these nations for us to maintain our standard of living.
Thanks for the response. My grandpa lived all over Alaska in the 50's and 60's working for the CAA (now FAA) planning airports in remote villages. From his tales from Anaktuvuk Pass in particular pretty much everything except caribou was brought in from the outside world and was really expensive.
All energy sources have their weaknesses. Oil products need to be refined and distributed which can break down in an emergency. In a flood you'd better have your own tank of fuel because gas stations and the fuel in their tanks is often impossible to get to or contaminated by water. The pumps run on electricity BTW.
Most people live in the world live in towns or cities or in close proximity to them. Very few people in the world live in isolated villages and those that do usually have really low purchasing power. Like aviation and towing capacity this isn't one of the primary use cases for electric vehicles. For the other vast majority of use cases EVs will do just fine.
The problem with coal, oil and natural gas is that they are finite resources and highly pollutive. It will certainly take time and will to replace them but the renewable share can and definitely will increase. You are spot on in addressing the challenges of battery resource materials. Of course the destruction in the hunt for black gold has had massive negative consequences for many countries and hundreds of millions of people. Many wars have been fought over oil.
Ok, I've never seen a dedicated discussion on the EV's in reality, in the real world, in the world where many tow caravans, trailers and trailer tents, and there are many countries that are cold.
So for example, in the UK there are some months I use the heater in the car whilst travelling 100 miles in a day. It has been close to zero for some weeks now.
My trailer weight is 750kg empty and it's gross weight can be 3,500kg. I own a 2lt Turbo Diesel car and a large diesel works van. Both equally pull the trailer well, empty and full, and every so often, I tow a 1.8t digger in a plant trailer.
So, talk of these EV cars being forced onto everyone that can now do 500+ miles on a charge etc.. all sounds good, but in the real world, which EV car will replace my current car towing 3 tons with the heater on?
And many want to go on holiday towing a caravan.
How do EV's perform under these 'real life' conditions?
I own a Tesla Model Y and a Ram 3500 dually with a 6.7L Cummins turbodiesel. The model Y has a heat pump and does okay in the cold but you will definitely lose some range as the temp drops below 0C. I think the EV's just aren't set up to tow although the new Cybertruck with the supposed range over 500 miles will do it much better. Obviously for towing, hauling and long range driving, we use our Ram truck.
We have an ideal set up for us as we have a Camper weighing around 1660 Kg that we haul on our truck and use the Tesla for driving around town daily. I think the ideal set up for most families is 1 EV and 1 ICE vehicle.
And you're last part, yes, get the technology sorted FIRST because just saying, "Future technology will make it possible" just doesn't cut it. We need tangible results, not "hopeful" results based on faith.
This is one of the main reasons I haven't switched to an EV. Regardless of towing and cold weather, hybrids are in a stronger position right now. At 50+mpg, 10K mile oil changes, and practically no drawbacks that EVs currently suffer from, hybrids are basically the best of both worlds.
I wouldn't mind a hybrid Ford Transit that gets around diesel level of mpg.
This is one of the main reasons I haven't switched to an EV. Regardless of towing and cold weather, hybrids are in a stronger position right now. At 50+mpg, 10K mile oil changes, and practically no drawbacks that EVs currently suffer from, hybrids are basically the best of both worlds.
I wouldn't mind a hybrid Ford Transit that gets around diesel level of mpg.
I agree with you.
Let's just say you have a 2009 Camry hybrid with 90k miles that has a bad hybrid battery. You can get a refurbished battery with a 4 year warranty for $2200. That is cheap enough that you can can replace the battery and keep driving the car.
On the other hand, if you were to have a 12 year old Chevy Bolt with the same miles that has a few bad cells, you will likely need a new (refurbished) battery pack. The cost for that will be so high that you might as well junk the car. Some will say you can get a used battery... well sure, you can, but then you pay several thousand for another old battery that could also go bad any day.
Of course, if you are the type to lease or trade every few years, this isn't a concern to you. People who buy older cars beyond the 8yr/100k battery warranty will be the ones to pay.
Be realistic, using a seat heater is an option that works for many - it will keep you warm - otherwise so many vehicles wouldn't have them .
It's one of the few features I scoffed at as "frivolous" when I first experienced it (my dad's 1999 GMC Envoy) that has become an essential for me (I've had them installed in 3 cars that didn't come with OEM heated seats).
That said, I've always sort of viewed them as a luxury rather than a critical component of the heating system. At least around here, they're nice because they fire up very quickly (before the car gets up to temperature), but they're no substitute for the cabin being warmed to 65-70 degrees. I'm not particularly adverse to the cold, but I can't see relying on heated seats more heavily to offset the normal heating functions.
It's one of the few features I scoffed at as "frivolous" when I first experienced it (my dad's 1999 GMC Envoy) that has become an essential for me (I've had them installed in 3 cars that didn't come with OEM heated seats).
That said, I've always sort of viewed them as a luxury rather than a critical component of the heating system. At least around here, they're nice because they fire up very quickly (before the car gets up to temperature), but they're no substitute for the cabin being warmed to 65-70 degrees. I'm not particularly adverse to the cold, but I can't see relying on heated seats more heavily to offset the normal heating functions.
In places where is gets very cold, the heat is needed mostly to keep you warm and to remove moisture form the cab. Since there is a temperature difference inside the cab versus outside the cab, any moisture in the cab from your breath or just melting snow on the floor mats, condensate and fogs the windows and windshield.
It's much like having a glass full of icy water during a hot summer. You will notice that the air moisture in the room condensates on the cold glass. If you then blow air on the glass using a fan, the moisture on the glass dissipates.
My 2001 Silverado has heated seats, but never turn the heaters on. The heater's (blower) is all I need.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
