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Old 12-27-2021, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Newburyport, MA
8,078 posts, read 5,047,168 times
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Toyota has been famously reluctant to embrace EV technology. GM has been publicly much more enthusiastic, and has made many announcements of big plans. Alex Guberman of the YouTube show "E for Electric" interviews Sandy Munro about the 2022 (and beyond) EV prospects for GM and Toyota, coming on the heels of the 2021 Los Angeles Auto Show, where Toyota had a big EV presence and GM had a big EV zero.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtef9PWVgDc

Last edited by OutdoorLover; 12-27-2021 at 08:02 PM..
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Old 12-27-2021, 08:09 PM
 
14,116 posts, read 14,418,819 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutdoorLover View Post
Toyota has been famously reluctant to embrace EV technology. GM has been publicly much more enthusiastic, and has made many announcements of big plans. Alex Guberman of the YouTube show "E for Electric" interviews Sandy Munro about the 2022 (and beyond) EV prospects for GM and Toyota, coming on the heels of the 2021 Los Angeles Auto Show, where Toyota had a big EV presence and GM had a big zero.]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandy Munro
That elephant (GM) does not tap dance!
Entertaining video.

I think the bottom line is what the MSRP is going to be.

Chevy Bolt 1LT From $31,995 Electric range on full charge EPA-est. 259 miles
Toyota bZ4X manufacturer-estimated range of up to 250 miles for XLE front-wheel drive models.
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Old 12-27-2021, 09:17 PM
 
Location: Newburyport, MA
8,078 posts, read 5,047,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
Entertaining video.

I think the bottom line is what the MSRP is going to be.

Chevy Bolt 1LT From $31,995 Electric range on full charge EPA-est. 259 miles
Toyota bZ4X manufacturer-estimated range of up to 250 miles for XLE front-wheel drive models.
I am not someone who extrapolates way out to make predictions. I will say though, that Munro was making two larger points about GM: that they are too slow, and they are too conservative in technical design decisions, that I think are accurate, and as such, these are significant problems that will be holding them back in an era of rapid developments in the industry. I *hope* this won't be the case, as I want all the major players to succeed in the EV space, I don't want there to be one dominant EV maker - Tesla.
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Old 12-27-2021, 09:18 PM
 
4,497 posts, read 4,629,017 times
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Toyota was supposed to be a leader in solid state battery tech and originally wanted to unveil it during the 2020 Olympics. If they ever get solid state batteries down pat it'll be a game changer and Toyota will dominate.
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Old 12-27-2021, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Newburyport, MA
8,078 posts, read 5,047,168 times
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Originally Posted by fibonacci View Post
Toyota was supposed to be a leader in solid state battery tech and originally wanted to unveil it during the 2020 Olympics. If they ever get solid state batteries down pat it'll be a game changer and Toyota will dominate.
Solid state batteries will have a significantly higher energy density, and totally agree that this will be a big deal. The question is when will they really be ready for mass production and be safe enough, reliable enough and durable enough to roll out in hundreds of thousands of EVs every year? I am optimistic the developers of these systems will eventually solve the issues which are holding them back, but I don't think the information is out there yet in the public domain anyway to allow us to anticipate when this will be.

Quantumscape, a US tech company that has funding from Volkswagen, has recently reported some breakthroughs, but until we see these things actually being made in large numbers and being rolled out in warrantied vehicles, being used by large numbers of customers where they perform according to Quantumscape's claims, I will withhold belief.
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Old 12-28-2021, 06:29 AM
 
Location: Maryland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
I think the bottom line is what the MSRP is going to be.
No. Botton line is what the ATP is going to be. MSRP is worthless. Especially when companies do things like this:





Remember, I BOUGHT a Bolt (as did 150k others). I don't just theorize crap. MSRP had zero to do with it, same for the nonexistent tax credits.
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Old 12-28-2021, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Podunk, IA
6,143 posts, read 4,187,490 times
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Don't hold your breath waiting for 2022 Toyota EVs.
That dog and pony show was nothing but a bunch of clay models.
Their home market bet on hydrogen. Bad bet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fibonacci View Post
Toyota was supposed to be a leader in solid state battery tech and originally wanted to unveil it during the 2020 Olympics. If they ever get solid state batteries down pat it'll be a game changer and Toyota will dominate.
More vaporware, like their concepts.
Believe it when you see vehicles rolling off lines in actual factories that have been built.
Remember supercapacitors?
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Old 12-28-2021, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Maryland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eaton53 View Post
Don't hold your breath waiting for 2022 Toyota EVs.
That dog and pony show was nothing but a bunch of clay models.
Their home market bet on hydrogen. Bad bet...
They are about to be selling their second EV, the awkwardly named Bz4X crossover (also sold as the Subaru Soltarra, and a Lexus version)

https://www.toyota.com/upcoming-vehicles/bz4x/

Quote:
More vaporware, like their concepts.
Believe it when you see vehicles rolling off lines in actual factories that have been built.
Remember supercapacitors?
They've already shown a running/driving car powered by those a couple months ago, and only have to work on scaling up production. They aren't the only ones working on that issue, but they are further along than most, and hold the most SSB patents. Their hybrids will get that tech first over the next couple years, as they ramp up battery production.
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Old 12-28-2021, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Podunk, IA
6,143 posts, read 4,187,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvetters63 View Post
They are about to be selling their second EV, the awkwardly named Bz4X crossover (also sold as the Subaru Soltarra, and a Lexus version)

https://www.toyota.com/upcoming-vehicles/bz4x/
220 mile range and 215 hp is not very impressive. Ok numbers... five years ago.
On paper the Ioniq 5 beats the brakes off of these things.
But I guess they gotta do something.

But it does pimp-slap Mazda's "why bother?" offerings.
Hondas going for Ultium while they figure this out for themselves.
Might be a smart move, not doing what Mazda did.

Last edited by eaton53; 12-28-2021 at 12:57 PM..
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Old 01-29-2022, 09:42 AM
 
10,521 posts, read 4,504,350 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutdoorLover View Post
I am not someone who extrapolates way out to make predictions. I will say though, that Munro was making two larger points about GM: that they are too slow, and they are too conservative in technical design decisions...
I don't see it that way. GM used to slow and conservative, but there has a been a change under Mary Barra's leadership. She's been able to turn the battleship around and they are headed full speed ahead on EV development. They are dropping $7B on three new battery factories and will be coming out with many new models by 2025. Ford's done the same, except their designs are better, and the F-150 Lightning is a stroke of design brilliance.

I view Toyota as a conservative trend-follower. They don't succeed by aggressively pushing edgy state-of-the-art designs. They are No. 1 because they appeal to the non-enthusiast buyer who wants sensible, well built and reliable vehicles. Your average motorist isn't ready to jump in on EV's just yet; when they are, then you'll see Toyota jump in with both feet.
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