Baltimore Key Bridge Collapses. (contractor, dangerous, move)

[bus man]

Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry

You can see cars and a tractor trailer clearly driving on the bridge right before impact on the clip I saw on the Today Show. They appear to be stopping or stopped as I said which is why they are not as visible on the clips that just show the impact. The official on TV said several cars went down with the bridge. That's why I have no idea how they can list a death total, we don't know how many people were in those cars.

At 34 seconds you can see and hear about the cars on the bridge.

https://www.today.com/on-the-show

In the videos I've seen, you can see a fairly steady stream of trucks, plus a few cars, crossing the bridge as the ship gets closer and closer. But then they just stop coming. I didn't see any moving vehicles on the bridge when it collapsed. Either they got lucky and there was a gap in the traffic, or they managed to close the bridge in time and the last of the vehicles cleared the span before the ship hit. The cars that went into the water were most likely the ones belonging to the workers on the bridge. But I don't know that.

As horrible as the loss of life is, it could have been much, much worse.

[bus man]

Originally Posted by Igor Blevin

It is may or may not be standard procedure to close traffic to a major bridge in the dead of night when moving particularly large or heavy ships in and out. I don't know how that worked with the Francis Scott Key Bridge.

I've passed under the Key Bridge and the Bay Bridge on several cruises, and traffic was never stopped. But I can't speak to how they handle large container ships late at night.

[YorktownGal]

Prevention: The bridge was built in the 1970 and is a “truss” type of bridge with no redundancy to compensate for the loss of a support structure. Thus, the bridge collapsed quickly, like a toy structure, once a single support went down. It’s important to note that cargo ships are now two times larger than cargo ships in the 1970s, increasing the probability and risk posed by them striking a bridge due to the vessels’ large mass and size. In addition, the Port of Maryland does not require exiting and entering cargo ships to be escorted by tugboats, which could have towed the Dali to safety when it lost its steering ability. At a quick glance, it seems clear that having tug escorts or availability of tugs seems prudent, or adding additional support for vulnerable bridges. The cost of taking these measures might seem prohibitive given the presumed low probability of a ship striking the bridge.

In terms of the boat itself, it is unclear whether there were systematic problems. It has been inspected 27 times since it was built in 2015. In June 2023, an inspection in Chile listed a deficiency related to the propulsion and auxiliary machinery—gauges, thermometers, etc. However, the deficiency was corrected the same day and the last inspection, in New York in September 2023, surfaced no deficiencies.

We should ask whether similar problems could happen at other ports. Three years ago, Synergy Marine Group’s Founder and Executive Chairman Captain Rajesh Unni warned that current port infrastructure is misaligned with today’s shipping vessels, creating dangerous conditions.

The CEO of the company managing the vessel reported his concerns about the unsafe conditions in Maryland’s harbor three years ago. At a quick glance, it seems clear that having tug escorts or availability of tugs seems prudent, or adding additional support for vulnerable bridges. I suspect the cost of taking these measures seemed prohibitive given the low probability of a ship striking the bridge.

https://www.bu.edu/articles/2024/was...ter-avoidable/

While the rest of the shipping sector is under accelerating pressure to decarbonize, driven by things like regulations, pressure from customers, and social pressure; there are areas of the supply chain that are often overlooked, such as tugboat services.

Today, over 21’000 tug boats operate around the world, emitting 40 million tonnes of CO2 every year. Whilst you may think it's a trivial matter given that it accounts for only 4% of total shipping emissions – this is no small matter. In fact, it is the equivalent of the emissions of more than 7 million cars per year. There is clearly an opportunity to decarbonize the maritime towage sector.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/shipp...nathan-jameson

So where tugboats cutout for climate change issues? Too much CO2 production?

[the resident09]

Originally Posted by Joakim3

It’s either Norfolk or NYC.

The container ships that enter Baltimore are to big to port in Delaware/Philly which creates a whole slew of issues.

So now instead of shipping goods to the door steps of a 10 million person region (DC-Baltimore CSA), you have to dock your shop +200 miles away and then truck/train any and every goods and any good currently in the port are effectively stranded for the next days-weeks.

It’s an nightmare logistics scenario for the entire NEC if there’s ever been one.

It will be Norfolk they said, or from what I have heard. Looking at the path of this ship (Dali) it hit all three ports after passing through the Panama Canal first stopping in NYC, then Norfolk, before trekking up to Baltimore which was the last stop before heading to Colombo, Sri Lanka. So that cargo on the ship is likely from at least those three ports.

Then you have to think what in the world will SE Baltmore be like traffic wise and the repercussions of the 695 Beltway on that side being shut down for likely over a year at least.

[Igor Blevin]

Originally Posted by bus man

I've passed under the Key Bridge and the Bay Bridge on several cruises, and traffic was never stopped. But I can't speak to how they handle large container ships late at night.

Good reminder. I have seen many container ships go under the Golden Gate in SF. I was probably wrong about that. It is probably only the very special case that bridges are closed. You never expect one to ram your bridge and take it down.

[Igor Blevin]

Originally Posted by YorktownGal

https://www.bu.edu/articles/2024/was...ter-avoidable/

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/shipp...nathan-jameson

So where tugboats cutout for climate change issues? Too much CO2 production?

I am just GUESSING here, but I think tugs are used where pilots can't safely maneuver a ship. Once a ship is safely in a wide channel away from expected hazards, I think the tugs are finished and the pilot drives the ship under its own power.

I think tugs are also used at very low speeds as the ship's rudder may not be effective at super low speeds and the need for maneuvering is extreme.

I am just guessing though, so don't mind me.

Someone with expertise will correct me.

[Jellybean50]

After the Mayday call traffic was stopped onto the bridge, somehow.

Also the ship did drop anchor as part of its emergency procedures after losing propulsion.

[bus man]

Originally Posted by YorktownGal

So where tugboats cutout for climate change issues? Too much CO2 production?

Some ships don't need tugboats. They have thrusters incorporated into the hull that can push a ship to either side. Also, their propellers are mounted on movable structures that can be turned as desired. Such ships as these are surprisingly maneuverable. But I doubt the MV Dali was so equipped, or else she probably wouldn't have needed the tugs to help her pull away from the dock.

Originally Posted by Jellybean50

After the Mayday call traffic was stopped onto the bridge, somehow.

Also the ship did drop anchor as part of its emergency procedures after losing propulsion.

There is a police station located at the foot of the Key Bridge on the north side with direct access to I-695. They probably could get an officer out to block the road within a few seconds of the distress call. I don't know how they closed off the south entrance so quickly.

[BOORGONG]

Originally Posted by bus man

Some ships don't need tugboats. They have thrusters incorporated into the hull that can push a ship to either side. Also, their propellers are mounted on movable structures that can be turned as desired. Such ships as these are surprisingly maneuverable. But I doubt the MV Dali was so equipped, or else she probably wouldn't have needed the tugs to help her pull away from the dock.



There is a police station located at the foot of the Key Bridge on the north side with direct access to I-695. They probably could get an officer out to block the road within a few seconds of the distress call. I don't know how they closed off the south entrance so quickly.

I heard a pilot speak to this issue earlier today. He said that the Dali had an "x" inside a circle markings on either side of the hull that meant they had power on both sides to maneuver. The problem is the engines conked out, I guess.

[Joakim3]

Originally Posted by kyle19125

It would seem there should be a logistics work-around considering ports in Wilmington, Chester and Philadelphia currently receive some form of container shipments.

The ships that port into Baltimore are too large for those ports, hence the extremely limited logistic work around. There only 4 ports on the entire east coast that can handle the sized ships that frequent Baltimore are. NYC, Norfolk, Charleston & Miami.

Charleston (let alone Miami) are two far south to make any logistical sense and don't serve the same market(s).

Yes, NYC & Norfolk ports decently larger than Baltimore's but are operating at near capacity themselves so they can't just take on millions upon of millions of new ship tonnage docking thats about to be diverted from Baltimore in a day(s) notice.

There is going to be 100's of ships and billions of dollars of cargo value on the eastern seaboard affected for the next few weeks.

Originally Posted by the resident09

It will be Norfolk they said, or from what I have heard. Looking at the path of this ship (Dali) it hit all three ports after passing through the Panama Canal first stopping in NYC, then Norfolk, before trekking up to Baltimore which was the last stop before heading to Colombo, Sri Lanka. So that cargo on the ship is likely from at least those three ports.

Then you have to think what in the world will SE Baltmore be like traffic wise and the repercussions of the 695 Beltway on that side being shut down for likely over a year at least.

Norfolk will help alleviate some of the containers strain for sure. RoRo and raw goods (coal, sugar, ore, etc.) on the hand totally screwed right now which is Baltimore bread and butter and the volume is to large to just be "added" overnight to Norfolk/NYC.

The 695 Beltway (well horseshoe now) is going to be like the Capital Beltway 2.0 for a few years. Traffic is going to hell.