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Old 06-06-2013, 05:57 PM
 
Location: somewhere in the Kona coffee fields
834 posts, read 1,207,745 times
Reputation: 1647

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nwcid View Post
If you can't shoot on private property where can you shoot? That makes no sense.

Of course you can not shoot in a residential area. Not only is that common sense but also a law in most places unless it is in self defense.
Hunting doesn't not automatically equate shooting a rifle or hand gun either. There are many public and private land holdings which allow hunting. Especially the ones with hundreds of acres, DLNR, federal or Bishop land. Enforcement of anything is also a different issue altogether here in Hawai'i.

Our neighborhood properties are all res or ag zoned, and the local hunters abide to our no-gun rules. Trust me, most of our flimsy houses have the bullet holes to proof that drink & shoot doesn't endanger the pigs so much, but our families. What our hui (so far always successful) gets you with if a gun owner shoots despite the signs around here:

1) Bullets enter another property: Instant case of reckless endangering.
2) Violating noise ordinances: Unlicensed "private" range.
3) Displaying of firearm in public view (plain view or binoculars; in the truck; carrying; in the act of shooting; etc): Charge of terroristic threatening.

If there's a real pesky pig problem, we call an experienced, not drinking or drugging hunter and inform the neighborhood prior.
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Old 06-06-2013, 07:10 PM
 
3,740 posts, read 3,055,244 times
Reputation: 895
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraBenNemsi View Post
Hunting doesn't not automatically equate shooting a rifle or hand gun either. There are many public and private land holdings which allow hunting. Especially the ones with hundreds of acres, DLNR, federal or Bishop land. Enforcement of anything is also a different issue altogether here in Hawai'i.

Our neighborhood properties are all res or ag zoned, and the local hunters abide to our no-gun rules. Trust me, most of our flimsy houses have the bullet holes to proof that drink & shoot doesn't endanger the pigs so much, but our families. What our hui (so far always successful) gets you with if a gun owner shoots despite the signs around here:

1) Bullets enter another property: Instant case of reckless endangering.
2) Violating noise ordinances: Unlicensed "private" range.
3) Displaying of firearm in public view (plain view or binoculars; in the truck; carrying; in the act of shooting; etc): Charge of terroristic threatening.

If there's a real pesky pig problem, we call an experienced, not drinking or drugging hunter and inform the neighborhood prior.
Crossbows or a compound bow. Silent, Deadly.
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Old 06-06-2013, 07:34 PM
 
12 posts, read 29,120 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraBenNemsi View Post
Hunting doesn't not automatically equate shooting a rifle or hand gun either. There are many public and private land holdings which allow hunting. Especially the ones with hundreds of acres, DLNR, federal or Bishop land. Enforcement of anything is also a different issue altogether here in Hawai'i.
But you literally said "you can't shoot that on private property" in your last post referring to a .45-70. That was the point in question. Now you saying it is legal to shoot on public and private lands, obviously in safe locations.

I fully understand that hunting is not always done with firearms.

Quote:
Our neighborhood properties are all res or ag zoned, and the local hunters abide to our no-gun rules. Trust me, most of our flimsy houses have the bullet holes to proof that drink & shoot doesn't endanger the pigs so much, but our families. What our hui (so far always successful) gets you with if a gun owner shoots despite the signs around here:

1) Bullets enter another property: Instant case of reckless endangering.
2) Violating noise ordinances: Unlicensed "private" range.
3) Displaying of firearm in public view (plain view or binoculars; in the truck; carrying; in the act of shooting; etc): Charge of terroristic threatening.

If there's a real pesky pig problem, we call an experienced, not drinking or drugging hunter and inform the neighborhood prior.
#1 I fully support
#2 is questionable but if it is the best law that covers the situation fully understandable.
#3 is pure crap. Open carry or display of a firearm is NOT a terroristic act. If so I hope that applies to ALL persons including LEO that are in your hui..........

I know I am new on this board with few posts. I have been reading a lot. This is the most appalling thing I have seen in a long time. I really hope I misunderstood what you are tying to say.
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Old 06-06-2013, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Volcano
12,969 posts, read 28,263,461 times
Reputation: 10755
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraBenNemsi View Post
What our hui (so far always successful) gets you with if a gun owner shoots despite the signs around here:
1) Bullets enter another property: Instant case of reckless endangering.
Agreed. But first you'd have to figure out where it came from and who did it. And that's harder than it may seem.

Quote:
2) Violating noise ordinances: Unlicensed "private" range.
What noise ordinance would that be? The one that ought to keep my neighbor's pit bulls from barking all the time, but doesn't? The one that should keep another neighbor down in the valley from cranking up his way out-of-tune electric guitar for some demented thrashing that disturbs my nap, but doesn't? In my corner of the island I hear gunshots quite often, but unless some bullets come whizzing overhead, there's no point at all in calling the police, who will take a half hour to get here at best. On a good day.

Quote:
3) Displaying of firearm in public view (plain view or binoculars; in the truck; carrying; in the act of shooting; etc): Charge of terroristic threatening.
Sorry, but this is just plain wrong. In my corner of the island pickups with gun racks, with guns in them, are an everyday sight at the general stores around here. Groups of hunters, with guns in their trucks, and dogs in their cages, and big ol' dead pigs in the back, just hanging out together and talking story are not quite as common, but they are not that unusual either.

Having a gun, holding a gun, even shooting a gun with permission on private property do not constitute terroristic threatening. There has to be a menacing act to qualify for that charge.

Quote:
If there's a real pesky pig problem, we call an experienced, not drinking or drugging hunter and inform the neighborhood prior.
And if there's a real pesky pig problem on my property I have the right to kill it myself, any time of the year, no problem. And as long as I don't endanger anyone else, nobody has a reason to complain.
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Old 06-06-2013, 09:58 PM
 
3,740 posts, read 3,055,244 times
Reputation: 895
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD View Post
Agreed. But first you'd have to figure out where it came from and who did it. And that's harder than it may seem.



What noise ordinance would that be? The one that ought to keep my neighbor's pit bulls from barking all the time, but doesn't? The one that should keep another neighbor down in the valley from cranking up his way out-of-tune electric guitar for some demented thrashing that disturbs my nap, but doesn't? In my corner of the island I hear gunshots quite often, but unless some bullets come whizzing overhead, there's no point at all in calling the police, who will take a half hour to get here at best. On a good day.



Sorry, but this is just plain wrong. In my corner of the island pickups with gun racks, with guns in them, are an everyday sight at the general stores around here. Groups of hunters, with guns in their trucks, and dogs in their cages, and big ol' dead pigs in the back, just hanging out together and talking story are not quite as common, but they are not that unusual either.

Having a gun, holding a gun, even shooting a gun with permission on private property do not constitute terroristic threatening. There has to be a menacing act to qualify for that charge.



And if there's a real pesky pig problem on my property I have the right to kill it myself, any time of the year, no problem. And as long as I don't endanger anyone else, nobody has a reason to complain.
I was beginning to root for the pigs!!! We're back to earth, now.

Last edited by Robin Rossi; 06-06-2013 at 10:21 PM..
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Old 06-07-2013, 03:37 AM
 
Location: somewhere in the Kona coffee fields
834 posts, read 1,207,745 times
Reputation: 1647
Alright, for very good reasons we have some of the best gun laws in the US. As gun hunting is concerned, it does leave enough room to properly hunt (which I have no problem with). But not much room to pretend 'hunting' and to use guns for all the wrong reasons.

First you need a permit. That also includes a mandatory safety course. And a hunting license in addition (another course).


1) Reckless endangerment first degree; second degree "Intentionally discharges a firearm in a populated area, in a residential area, or within the boundaries or in the direction of any road, street, or highway;..."

Criminal damage to property is another law someone can claim when bullets fly towards one's property.

Hunting on private land is prohibited if it's not yours or you are specifically allowed to hunt there by the owner. Size of land matters, so a small residental parcel of up to an acre is really not suited for a private, unlicensed range. The i.e. private range lands mauka of thousands of acres are allowed to be hunted. Hunting on private land at night however is totally forbidden.

2) This brings up the police, who is really on their game when bullets fly: A noise complaint reg barking dogs will get much less attention than when one reports the i.e. neighbor shooting at night--this particular neighbor WILL get a visit in no time. This is a preventive action by the HPD to spot armed trouble makers, who might endanger the public, family members, or their officers later.

3) Terroristic threatening: One of my favorites and gets even Feds, Homeland Security, DEA going. When encountering a group of boozing, pakalolo and ice smoking guys, chest bumping the residents, claiming whatever rights to cross your property with rifles in hand and 'free' you from pigs, use the fashionable 'terrorist' word on the 911 recorded call. That prevents the local shrug-off that boys will be boys. To I.D. the perps take the license plates. No, you also can not walk or drive around with your gun outside of a secure case. If one confronts a trespasser with a gun in hand or with the gun in a secure box in a truck makes all the difference of a threat level, doesn't it?

HPD news release July 8th, 2010:
Police have received a rash of complaints about illegal hunting in West Hawai’i due to an abundance of wild pigs migrating onto private property because of dry weather conditions.

Both county police and enforcement officers for the Department of Land and Natural Resources have received complaints about hunters not obtaining permission from landowners to hunt on private property, using negligence when discharging a weapon in a residential area, harming or injuring pets and livestock, hunting without a license and hunting after sunset.

Community Police Officers from West Hawaii encourage community groups and hunting organizations to call them to arrange for disseminating information about safe and ethical hunting. They also would like to establish a list of trappers who would be willing to remove wild pigs from private properties on which landowners do not allow hunting. Interested persons may call Officers Robin Crusat or Darren Cho at 326-4646, ext. 259, or the Captain Cook police substation at 323-2591.
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Old 06-07-2013, 04:08 AM
 
3,740 posts, read 3,055,244 times
Reputation: 895
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraBenNemsi View Post
Alright, for very good reasons we have some of the best gun laws in the US. As gun hunting is concerned, it does leave enough room to properly hunt (which I have no problem with). But not much room to pretend 'hunting' and to use guns for all the wrong reasons.

First you need a [URL="http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0002.htm"]permit[/URL]. That also includes a mandatory safety course. And a [URL="http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0183D/HRS_0183D-0021.htm"]hunting license[/URL] in addition (another course).


1) Reckless endangerment [URL="http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol14_Ch0701-0853/HRS0707/HRS_0707-0713.htm"]first degree[/URL]; [URL="http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol14_Ch0701-0853/HRS0707/HRS_0707-0714.htm"]second degree[/URL] "Intentionally discharges a firearm in a populated area, in a residential area, or within the boundaries or in the direction of any road, street, or highway;..."

[URL="http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol14_Ch0701-0853/HRS0708/HRS_0708-0820.htm"]Criminal damage to property[/URL] is another law someone can claim when bullets fly towards one's property.

[URL="http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0183D/HRS_0183D-0026.htm"]Hunting on private land is prohibited[/URL] if it's not yours or you are specifically allowed to hunt there by the owner. Size of land matters, so a small residental parcel of up to an acre is really not suited for a private, unlicensed range. The i.e. private range lands mauka of thousands of acres are allowed to be hunted. [URL="http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0183D/HRS_0183D-0027.htm"]Hunting on private land at night [/URL] however is totally forbidden.

2) This brings up the police, who is really on their game when bullets fly: A noise complaint reg barking dogs will get much less attention than when one reports the i.e. neighbor shooting at night--this particular neighbor WILL get a visit in no time. This is a preventive action by the HPD to spot armed trouble makers, who might endanger the public, family members, or their officers later.

3) Terroristic threatening: One of my favorites and gets even Feds, Homeland Security, DEA going. When encountering a group of boozing, pakalolo and ice smoking guys, chest bumping the residents, claiming whatever rights to cross your property with rifles in hand and 'free' you from pigs, use the fashionable 'terrorist' word on the 911 recorded call. That prevents the local shrug-off that boys will be boys. To I.D. the perps take the license plates. No, you also can not walk or drive around with your gun outside of [URL="http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0023.htm"]a secure case[/URL]. If one confronts a trespasser with a gun in hand or with the gun in a secure box in a truck makes all the difference of a threat level, doesn't it?

HPD news release July 8th, 2010:
Police have received a rash of complaints about illegal hunting in West Hawai’i due to an abundance of wild pigs migrating onto private property because of dry weather conditions.

Both county police and enforcement officers for the Department of Land and Natural Resources have received complaints about hunters not obtaining permission from landowners to hunt on private property, using negligence when discharging a weapon in a residential area, harming or injuring pets and livestock, hunting without a license and hunting after sunset.

Community Police Officers from West Hawaii encourage community groups and hunting organizations to call them to arrange for disseminating information about safe and ethical hunting. They also would like to establish a list of trappers who would be willing to remove wild pigs from private properties on which landowners do not allow hunting. Interested persons may call Officers Robin Crusat or Darren Cho at 326-4646, ext. 259, or the Captain Cook police substation at 323-2591.
I'm pulling for the pigs again. Sad, so very sad.
m
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Old 06-07-2013, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Volcano
12,969 posts, read 28,263,461 times
Reputation: 10755
Default Gun laws and police policies on the Big Island

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraBenNemsi View Post
Alright, for very good reasons we have some of the best gun laws in the US. As gun hunting is concerned, it does leave enough room to properly hunt (which I have no problem with). But not much room to pretend 'hunting' and to use guns for all the wrong reasons.
Who said anything about using guns for the wrong reasons? I said, accurately, that I have the right to shoot a pig on my own rural property, any day of the year, and I don't need any license to do that. And I can also shoot rats, mongooses, feral dogs, etc. Or unlawful trespassers in the commission of a felony, for that matter. As long as I am not endangering my neighbors.

If you do a Search here, you'll find that over the last three years I've contributed a lot of comments on what the gun laws are (and are not) here in Hawai'i, and especially on the Big Island, where the HPD interpretations and policies prevail. I'm a responsible gun owner and have been an enthusiastic shooter all my life. I support the Police in maintaining public safety, and I obey the law. Knowing what that law is empowers me.

This is the official HPD website on the topic: Firearm Registration

For the benefit of late arrivers, based on the official info, plus my own personal experience, here's what I have found is actually so...

First, Hawaii allows for the open carrying of long guns (rifles, shotguns) in public, for target shooting purposes or while hunting with a license. They do not have to be in a case. I personally think it is smart to carry them in a case, which I do with my shotgun when I go skeet shooting, but it is not required and not everyone does so. Merely holding or carrying a long gun in accord with these principles is not considered "terroristic threatening." That charge requires some actual brandishing or menacing action.

Open carry of handguns is not permitted in Hawai'i, and concealed carry permits, while theoretically available, are issued so infrequently as to seem mythical.

Next, you do not need a permit to own a gun in Hawai'i. Yes, you do need a Permit to Acquire if you want to buy one in the state, but if you bring one in (or many, even, no limit) from another state the only requirement if you are a resident or are moving to the Big Island is that you register them with the HPD within 72 hours of landing. Visiting hunters or target shooters have no such requirement. And unloaded guns may be checked as baggage on airlines so long as they are in locked cases and declared to airline personnel. Ammunition may not be carried. (Be prepared for sticker shock when you purchase ammunition here!)

Application for a Permit to Acquire is made at Police Stations, and includes fingerprinting (for the first one) and a photo and an FBI background check, which is much more comprehensive than the ATF "instant check" which the gun dealers do. Proof of completion of a gun safety course or hunter safety course taught by an NRA certified instructor is also required. Although there is no waiting period per se in Hawai'i, the Permit to Acquire takes at least 14 days to process. A PtA for a handgun is good for one purchase, which must be completed within 14 days. A PtA for long guns is good for a year, with no limit on quantity purchased. Any gun purchase from a dealer must be registered with the Police within 5 days. Private party sales and transfers also require a Permit to Acquire for handguns (not long guns) and must be registered with the police within 48 hours.

Check the HPD site I linked above for locations to register, and applicable hours.

There is more... specific "assault weapon" type firearms are prohibited... handgun magazines over 10 round capacity are illegal... but it's all doable, if not as open and convenient as other states.
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Old 06-07-2013, 09:15 AM
 
3,740 posts, read 3,055,244 times
Reputation: 895
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraBenNemsi View Post
Alright, for very good reasons we have some of the best gun laws in the US.
It is sad, disheartening and downright ill-advised that this is true. Gun Laws virtually-always restrict only the potential victims of crime, and almost-never the potential perpetrators of crime.

Net result, the imbalance of power between predator (criminal) and prey (crime victim) is imbalanced even more in favor of the criminal.

Such laws COST so many lives every year as to be near-treasonous, but then weapons control has always been a political, not crime-fighting, tool, since the days when weapons had cutting edges and sharp ponts, as opposed to barrels and triggers.

It would be like telling a flock of sheep that you are going to protect them against wolf-attack by tying their legs together, while sharpening the wolf's teeth.

Hawaii is no different in this global reality. Luckily, Hawaii's "makeup" does not tend toward violent crime in the first place, or it would be a slaughter-house like Detroit or Chicago.

This reality has been studied, documented and proven time and time-again by professionals observing real-world experience for many decades and is, in reality, indisputable, and it is to Hawaii's detriment that such laws exist.

Last edited by Robin Rossi; 06-07-2013 at 10:09 AM..
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:40 AM
 
12 posts, read 29,120 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraBenNemsi View Post
Alright, for very good reasons we have some of the best gun laws in the US. As gun hunting is concerned, it does leave enough room to properly hunt (which I have no problem with). But not much room to pretend 'hunting' and to use guns for all the wrong reasons.

First you need a permit. That also includes a mandatory safety course. And a hunting license in addition (another course).


1) Reckless endangerment first degree; second degree "Intentionally discharges a firearm in a populated area, in a residential area, or within the boundaries or in the direction of any road, street, or highway;..."

Criminal damage to property is another law someone can claim when bullets fly towards one's property.

Hunting on private land is prohibited if it's not yours or you are specifically allowed to hunt there by the owner. Size of land matters, so a small residental parcel of up to an acre is really not suited for a private, unlicensed range. The i.e. private range lands mauka of thousands of acres are allowed to be hunted. Hunting on private land at night however is totally forbidden.

2) This brings up the police, who is really on their game when bullets fly: A noise complaint reg barking dogs will get much less attention than when one reports the i.e. neighbor shooting at night--this particular neighbor WILL get a visit in no time. This is a preventive action by the HPD to spot armed trouble makers, who might endanger the public, family members, or their officers later.

3) Terroristic threatening: One of my favorites and gets even Feds, Homeland Security, DEA going. When encountering a group of boozing, pakalolo and ice smoking guys, chest bumping the residents, claiming whatever rights to cross your property with rifles in hand and 'free' you from pigs, use the fashionable 'terrorist' word on the 911 recorded call. That prevents the local shrug-off that boys will be boys. To I.D. the perps take the license plates. No, you also can not walk or drive around with your gun outside of a secure case. If one confronts a trespasser with a gun in hand or with the gun in a secure box in a truck makes all the difference of a threat level, doesn't it?

HPD news release July 8th, 2010:
Police have received a rash of complaints about illegal hunting in West Hawai’i due to an abundance of wild pigs migrating onto private property because of dry weather conditions.

Both county police and enforcement officers for the Department of Land and Natural Resources have received complaints about hunters not obtaining permission from landowners to hunt on private property, using negligence when discharging a weapon in a residential area, harming or injuring pets and livestock, hunting without a license and hunting after sunset.

Community Police Officers from West Hawaii encourage community groups and hunting organizations to call them to arrange for disseminating information about safe and ethical hunting. They also would like to establish a list of trappers who would be willing to remove wild pigs from private properties on which landowners do not allow hunting. Interested persons may call Officers Robin Crusat or Darren Cho at 326-4646, ext. 259, or the Captain Cook police substation at 323-2591.

This post says a lot about you and your mentality.

There is a right way and a wrong way to do things. I remain appalled at your actions since this is what you have determined to be the "best" way to deal with the situation. It is sad what the world is becoming.

Generally I say treat people the way you expect to be treated. I sure hope nobody else treats anyone the way you do...........

I agree that people that are actually causing a problem should be dealt with but in the correct manner. I am not fully up on all of HI's law yet but I know in most other states there are more then enough APPROPRIATE laws to deal with this.

Last edited by Nwcid; 06-07-2013 at 11:51 AM..
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