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I am neither a BMW fan nor Lexus. But I think your opinion, as passionate as it is, isn't backed up what is happening today.
The IS250 is a nice car. It is Lexus' sportiest sedan (more so in the 350). It is their least expensive RWD car. That is why it is popular. It is well made, reliable, and good looking - all attributes of a successful car. Lexus models (either branded Lexus or Toyota) do not sell well outside the US because of their soft ride and over emphasis on comfort. That is why Lexus is evolving the brand to be closer to the Germans. A new GS is on the way.
If Volvo had continued to make the 240 and the 740, they would be out of business in the US. Maybe you and a few thousand others would have continued to buy them but very few others. Volvo chose to compete for the near luxury buyer, not just the conserative college professor buyer. And the same old Volvo wouldn't do it.
I don't think owning a BMW gets in anyone's way attaining partner if that is their goal.
I'm not here to defend BMWs. I don't own one nor am I likely to. But I simply think your assessment of them is wrong.
The IS was Lexus chasing sporty. That's why your kids drive them. It's about the only Lexus that appeals to someone under the age of 35. People older than 35 are not young any longer. Regardles, BMW's aren't AS popular because they're getting less sporty while the competition, especially in the near-luxury segment (3-series, C class, A4, IS, G and so on) have gone much sportier. The S60 Designer R or whatever its called is not that remarkable, but its at least somewhat competitive to a 335i and not a shoebox with a diesel engine. No offence to the old shoe-box Volvos as I actually liked them. The A4 used to have a nice interior and that's all that could be said for the front-drive understeering pig of a Passat with lipstick. It might have been nice in the family-sedan rank and file, but was hopelessly outclassed in the near-luxury segment. Not so anymore. The AWD variant is still a few steps behind, but not bad. Mercedes has been getting progressively more sporty ever since they stopped building recirculating ball steering equipped vehicles that had as much road feel as a shot of Novocain. The two big challengers are, of course, the IS and Infiniti G. Prior to the IS, Lexus near-luxury was a Toyota Camry. Talk about unattractive to young male ego. The first generation IS was uhh.. well, yeah. Completely different story with the second generation. The Infiniti G was priced right, offered good performance, and a backseat that was just that much bigger than the cramped quarters in the 3 and C.
Putting up with a finicky car means wasting endless hours getting it sorted-out. Those hours can mean the difference between 'making partner', and stagnating. Bosses are quite unsympathetic to whose whose days are interrupted by 'Dropping off the BMW' and 'Picking up the BMW'. And being seen as 'image conscious' is a hazard unto itself. Bosses see the image conscious as competition. I would add that during our own rise in the world, we drove extremely used Volvos. We'd still be driving Volvos, if they still really made them.
It is not young professionals who drive hyperluxury cars. Generally, those are driven by impotent old men cruising for young nookie, trophy wives, criminals, and Sports Monkeys. Some of them are social-climbing Dragon Ladies like myself. I am over 40, and surely no longer qualify as 'young'.
Lexus has traditionally been a very ugly car. IS was their first attractive series. If they simply make the Lexus beautiful, they will do well. If, however, they make it 'sporty', then they will be making a huge mistake. When Ford ate Volvo, the gimped-up/tricked-out ghetto tennis shoe look was something the marque's traditional customer base found exceedingly offensive. We LIKED 'boxy' (although we called it 'sedate'). At that point, we, and everyone we knew, switched to Lexus and Mercedes, because those, at least, still looked dignified.
My kids bought their IS250s because the car's lines are serene and uncluttered, and because the wheels were the least 'ghetto' of anything being offered.
And as for whether we are in a Depression... I take it you don't personally know any Economists.
WTF
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric
The IS was Lexus chasing sporty. That's why your kids drive them. It's about the only Lexus that appeals to someone under the age of 35. People older than 35 are not young any longer. Regardles, BMW's aren't AS popular because they're getting less sporty while the competition, especially in the near-luxury segment (3-series, C class, A4, IS, G and so on) have gone much sportier. The S60 Designer R or whatever its called is not that remarkable, but its at least somewhat competitive to a 335i and not a shoebox with a diesel engine. No offence to the old shoe-box Volvos as I actually liked them. The A4 used to have a nice interior and that's all that could be said for the front-drive understeering pig of a Passat with lipstick. It might have been nice in the family-sedan rank and file, but was hopelessly outclassed in the near-luxury segment. Not so anymore. The AWD variant is still a few steps behind, but not bad. Mercedes has been getting progressively more sporty ever since they stopped building recirculating ball steering equipped vehicles that had as much road feel as a shot of Novocain. The two big challengers are, of course, the IS and Infiniti G. Prior to the IS, Lexus near-luxury was a Toyota Camry. Talk about unattractive to young male ego. The first generation IS was uhh.. well, yeah. Completely different story with the second generation. The Infiniti G was priced right, offered good performance, and a backseat that was just that much bigger than the cramped quarters in the 3 and C.
The Infiniti G is a Nissan Skyline that came years after the ES and IS. The Infinity I30/35 failed. The G combined cheap value with good size with a luxury badge.
Not sure where people are getting BMWs are not selling. They still sell very well and the 3 series is still a dominant seller in its last year.
The Infiniti G is a Nissan Skyline that came years after the ES and IS. The Infinity I30/35 failed. The G combined cheap value with good size with a luxury badge.
The Lexus IS is a Toyota Altezza and the Lexus GS is a Toyota Aristo that provide cheap value with a luxury badge.
The Lexus IS is/was designed specifically to take down the BMW 3, no more no less. In my neck of the woods, you will see just as many trendy/yuppie style people driving the Lexus IS as you will the BMW 3, and they most certainly believe they have made a trendy/smart choice. IS sells well, GS doesn't and was about to be cancelled until the American Lexus execs pleaded and got their wish to have the car continue on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandviewGloria
IS was their first attractive series. If they simply make the Lexus beautiful, they will do well. If, however, they make it 'sporty', then they will be making a huge mistake.
They are doing everything they can to make it sporty by selling F parts and introducing the IS-F to go head to head with the M3 - you're just way off, plain and simple. Lexus, as a whole, is doing their best to drop the image of being the Japanese Buick by building the LFA and by pushing the F parts and vehicles. They still sell the ES to the dowdy, quiet conservative types and the IS has a much younger fan base.
Putting up with a finicky car means wasting endless hours getting it sorted-out. Those hours can mean the difference between 'making partner', and stagnating. Bosses are quite unsympathetic to whose whose days are interrupted by 'Dropping off the BMW' and 'Picking up the BMW'. And being seen as 'image conscious' is a hazard unto itself. Bosses see the image conscious as competition. I would add that during our own rise in the world, we drove extremely used Volvos. We'd still be driving Volvos, if they still really made them.
It is not young professionals who drive hyperluxury cars. Generally, those are driven by impotent old men cruising for young nookie, trophy wives, criminals, and Sports Monkeys. Some of them are social-climbing Dragon Ladies like myself. I am over 40, and surely no longer qualify as 'young'.
Lexus has traditionally been a very ugly car. IS was their first attractive series. If they simply make the Lexus beautiful, they will do well. If, however, they make it 'sporty', then they will be making a huge mistake. When Ford ate Volvo, the gimped-up/tricked-out ghetto tennis shoe look was something the marque's traditional customer base found exceedingly offensive. We LIKED 'boxy' (although we called it 'sedate'). At that point, we, and everyone we knew, switched to Lexus and Mercedes, because those, at least, still looked dignified.
My kids bought their IS250s because the car's lines are serene and uncluttered, and because the wheels were the least 'ghetto' of anything being offered.
And as for whether we are in a Depression... I take it you don't personally know any Economists.
Know why the BMW 3 Series sells so well? Because they've perfected the balance between sport and luxury. With the IS, Lexus is trying to find that balance and they've done fairly well with it. The IS doesn't appeal to the old fogies, the ES and LS is reserved for that clientele.
I personally don't know any bosses who care what type of car their employees drive as long as they are performing their job duties. If my boss really judged me on my vehicle choice and not my skills, I'd probably quit.
And no we are not in a depression, I'd argue that we are coming out of the RECESSION we were in. And do I personally know any economists? Actually one of my very closest friends that graduated from college with me is an economist. But I still receive most of my economic information from The Wall Street Journal and they have never said were in a depression.
The Lexus IS is a Toyota Altezza and the Lexus GS is a Toyota Aristo that provide cheap value with a luxury badge.
The Lexus IS is/was designed specifically to take down the BMW 3, no more no less. In my neck of the woods, you will see just as many trendy/yuppie style people driving the Lexus IS as you will the BMW 3, and they most certainly believe they have made a trendy/smart choice. IS sells well, GS doesn't and was about to be cancelled until the American Lexus execs pleaded and got their wish to have the car continue on.
They are doing everything they can to make it sporty by selling F parts and introducing the IS-F to go head to head with the M3 - you're just way off, plain and simple. Lexus, as a whole, is doing their best to drop the image of being the Japanese Buick by building the LFA and by pushing the F parts and vehicles. They still sell the ES to the dowdy, quiet conservative types and the IS has a much younger fan base.
Not accurate. The Altezza was a 4 cylinder with a 6 speed. the IS 200/3500 were 6 cylinders (I-6) with 5 speeds. So there were significant changes there, not just a rebadge. The Aristo never offered a V-8 that the GS 400/430 offered. With Lexus debuting in Japan in 2006 all the models are Lexus models.
The GS was never going to get canceled, it was some media hyperbole that trolls used to run away with to bash Lexus. What was said internally is do it right or don't bother doing it. In other words "get it together" not cancel it.
The Japanese Buick is Acura, Lexus has always offered sporty cars (SC, GS, IS) but people with the mental capacity of a grape think all Lexus models are rebadged Camry's and are not car enthusiasts.
Don't you drive a Hyundai anyway? What do you know about cars.
The Lexus IS drives like crap. Numb steering, lots of body roll, not sporty at all. The IS-F isn't in the same league as the M3, although it tries very hard. The Infiniti G class offers better handling, and is closer to a BMW in sportiness and driving enjoyment.
This young professional still prefers BMW over Infiniti, Lexus, Acura, Mercedes, Audi.
I've mentioned before that BMW has rock-bottom lease costs. Their monthly payment is typically a little more than 1/2 of what it is for a mercedes.
Therefore, there are a lot of poser d-bags cruising around in BMW's pretending to have some coin while really living at thier folks house or in a craphole apt up to their eyes in debt. I've suggested before that BMW's leasing strategy to try to get their foot in the door with some younger folks may backfire and cheapen their image and that may or may not be happening, just a thought.
Toyota, Honda etc. all have "starter cars" for younger folks to instill brand loyalty and as they can afford better then may be tending to stick with the brand instead of heading over to BMW. I view thier leasing strategy as a way to try to counter this but will it work?
Not accurate. The Altezza was a 4 cylinder with a 6 speed. the IS 200/3500 were 6 cylinders (I-6) with 5 speeds. So there were significant changes there, not just a rebadge. The Aristo never offered a V-8 that the GS 400/430 offered. With Lexus debuting in Japan in 2006 all the models are Lexus models.
The GS was never going to get canceled, it was some media hyperbole that trolls used to run away with to bash Lexus. What was said internally is do it right or don't bother doing it. In other words "get it together" not cancel it.
The Japanese Buick is Acura, Lexus has always offered sporty cars (SC, GS, IS) but people with the mental capacity of a grape think all Lexus models are rebadged Camry's and are not car enthusiasts.
Don't you drive a Hyundai anyway? What do you know about cars.
I disagree the Japanese Buick is Acura. The closest Japanese car to a traditional Buick is the Toyota Avalon.
Every Acura is firmer riding and handling than the equivalent Lexus. Acura has a bit of an identity problem, but it was never targeted at the Buick buyer (and has few Buick converts).
Lexus has traditional Buick-like handling but the quality of a German car.
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