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Hi all - I've been searching through the forum, and doing a lot of Googling. I apologize if this same issue has come up before, I'm just looking for help.
I'm considering doing residency at either Beth israel (more likely) or BUMC (still quite possible). My wife and I come from the NY area, although we currently live in the suburbs and have a decent amount of room, off-street parking, etc.
We want to leave NY and try something different, and so Boston seems like a great option. It's driving distance from home, we have friends in the area and elsewhere in New England, etc.
I have a few major concerns, that I'm wondering if someone could help me with...
1. I want a relatively simple day-to-day for my wife and I. I.e., commute 30 minutes or less, without much hassle, is really important.
2. We have a big dog, and I'm getting the sense that it's hard to rent in this town with a big dog.
3. We'd like to be in a somewhat walkable area.
4. We're used to having a lot of space (but obviously could downsize somewhat to be in a more walkable/city area).
5. We're on a budget... at the moment, I'm thinking $2500-2700/month rent, but that's just a ballpark.
6. I've been told that it can be very difficult, if not impossible, to find a rental in Boston prior to 9/1, and I'd need it by June at the latest.
7. We'd definitely need to keep at least 1 car (probably could manage with just the 1).
These concerns are making Boston problematic for me at the moment, and I'm wondering if anyone could let me know realistically how happy my wife and I would be there given the circumstances. We've toured around the city quite a bit, and based on all the data, I THINK if I end up in the Longwood area, we'd live in Brookline or JP (Fenway maybe?), and if I was at BUMC, we'd live in South End (which we especially liked).
Residency training is quite challenging as you may know, and other cities we're considering seem to make things easier. Chicago is another big consideration, and I'm noticing that apartments are cheaper there, parking is not a problem, dogs seem more welcomed into apartments, and so on. As such, Boston is seeming like a tough option, and yet I can't stop thinking about it because it would make sense logistically in a lot of ways.
I should mention that Providence is another strong candidate for us, which could be good, but seems like it's so close to Boston it might be annoying not being in boston itself. Any knowledge of that city? Thanks guys!
Hi, transplant here who doesn't like Boston. So I won't gush and tell you how it's the best place on Earth and I'll try to give realistic answers. We live on a much smaller budget than you, have more free time, and generally a different lifestyle. We also prefer NYC to Boston, but dislike the NE compared to some other parts of this country and other countries. My advice applies best to points north of Boston like Cambridge, Somerville, and the like. So take all this with those grains of salt.
I'll sort of divide my responses into positives +: and negatives -:
Quote:
Originally Posted by medicalguy30
We want to leave NY and try something different, and so Boston seems like a great option. It's driving distance from home, we have friends in the area and elsewhere in New England, etc.
It is a long drive to NYC, usually 4+ hours. We generally take the $15 Fung Wah bus to take some of the stress out, and because it's so inexpensive. We visit maybe every two months. We'd like to go more, but--as I said, it's a trek.
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1. I want a relatively simple day-to-day for my wife and I. I.e., commute 30 minutes or less, without much hassle, is really important.
+: Live on the same bus or subway line as you work and you will do fine.
-: Avoid transfers, as the system is not well integrated. Do NOT depend on the Green Line, which breaks down/pauses inexplicably quite often. Bus fare is high, subway fare is very high (same as NY, though the system is much less extensive), and light rail is ridiculous.
+riving is an option, but try to live so that you drive against the daily traffic flow.
-riving in Boston is always an irritating experience. The roads are poorly marked, signals are not in sequence, and the drivers are irrationally timid and make very poor decisions. The transit systems in general are in poor repair, noticably worse than NY.
+:Cycling is very popular in the city. If you can find a dedicated bikeway or broad set of streets to cycle, it's a nice way to get to work and save money. The city tries to regulate itself to be bike-and-pedestrian friendly
-:The narrow roads, poor signage, and bad drivers make it too dangerous for my taste. I commuted by bicycle in Taipei (streets) and Los Angeles (dedicated bikeway), but I wouldn't play the odds in Boston, mainly due to the poor state of road repair. The weather is awful for cycling. Heavy rains in the summer and ice/snow are likely 6 months of the year. If you cycle, I would avoid trendy fixies and get a solid mountain bike with snow tyres unless you are riding many many miles. Also get good lighting as wintertime is dark by 4:30PM.
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2. We have a big dog, and I'm getting the sense that it's hard to rent in this town with a big dog.
No pets, so not much input on this. I do not notice as many dog parks as NY/LA, but I don't look for them. I see plenty of dog-walkers.
+: Maybe not so bad in your price range.
+: You don't have to go far to hit suburbs (especially heading north) with large yards and green spaces for big dogs.
-: Boston (in town) strikes me as a more small/medium-dog friendly place.
-: Living in the suburbs almost certainly means a difficult commute. Consider places near the Orange or Red Lines (if they go by your POB) to mitigate this.
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3. We'd like to be in a somewhat walkable area.
+: Suburbs/towns to the north have small town centers that are walkable.
+: Downtown-ish Boston, is very walkable (it is a very small city), there are many walkable squares along the Red Line and off other transit systems.
-: There is not much to any of the small town centers, squares, or city center I've mentioned above. You can blow $20 of subway fare between you and your wife and only get a half-day's worth of boutiques, coffee, POI's, to visit. Summer festivals help a little.
-:We found Boston nice to visit, but we ran out of interesting things to do after about 4 months, and especially during the long winter. It's a good city to have family or childhood friends in because there's not so much to do out and about.
+: Having money to burn on events helps. Being frugal will limit your entertainment options.
+: Being from NY, you are probably used to walking around in the cold and dark, so maybe winter won't be such an issue for you.
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4. We're used to having a lot of space (but obviously could downsize somewhat to be in a more walkable/city area).
+: There are plenty of big houses in the nearby suburbs/towns.
+: Rentals are larger and cheaper in Boston than in NY, in our experience.
+: Boston is a very small city, so except in the very high-rent, densest areas space is not at such a premium as it is in dense metropolises like NY, London, Taipei, etc.
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5. We're on a budget... at the moment, I'm thinking $2500-2700/month rent, but that's just a ballpark.
+: That's a big budget for the outskirts.
-: That's a small budget for the nicest places such as Cambridge or Back Bay.
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6. I've been told that it can be very difficult, if not impossible, to find a rental in Boston prior to 9/1, and I'd need it by June at the latest.
+: Lies. We moved with about a month's worth of casual searching in March.
-: You will have to deal with a byzantine system of rental broker middlemen who take (your's or your landlord's) money for doing little/nothing.
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7. We'd definitely need to keep at least 1 car (probably could manage with just the 1).
+riving (actually parking) in Boston is not as hard as people make it out to be. We live only a few miles from downtown, but driving is usually faster, cheaper, and less hassle than public transportation especially if 2 or more are travelling together. (Sadly, because--despite what I'm writing here, I love public transportation. We just haven't been able to justify using Boston's because of the high cost and poor coverage.) Keep a sharp eye out, be willing to walk, learn the tricks of the system and you can almost always find free parking nights and weekends (except when there's a major event).
-: Boston is very car-unfriendly. There are no shortage of regulations (and un/intentional annoyances) to discourage driving/parking in many areas.
-: Transit in the city is simply frustrating, and it's not as if I have a better solution. If driving were easier, more people would do it and the roads would be even worse. The high cost of labor/corruption/nepotism/cronyism means that expanding/improving/lowering [the cost] of the public transit system is an impossible proposition. And there's nothing to be done about the weather.
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These concerns are making Boston problematic for me at the moment, and I'm wondering if anyone could let me know realistically how happy my wife and I would be there given the circumstances. We've toured around the city quite a bit, and based on all the data, I THINK if I end up in the Longwood area, we'd live in Brookline or JP (Fenway maybe?), and if I was at BUMC, we'd live in South End (which we especially liked).
No one can tell you what you'll like, and you probably won't know until you try it. We thought we'd love Boston--that it would be the San Francisco of the East Coast. But it's not. It's the Boston of the East Coast. Some people love it and stay forever, other's dislike it and leave as soon as they are able, as we are doing.
Quote:
Residency training is quite challenging as you may know, and other cities we're considering seem to make things easier. Chicago is another big consideration, and I'm noticing that apartments are cheaper there, parking is not a problem, dogs seem more welcomed into apartments, and so on. As such, Boston is seeming like a tough option, and yet I can't stop thinking about it because it would make sense logistically in a lot of ways.
Boston might be perfect for you. We often remark that the city seems very good for people who want to stay in, stay at home, or go to bed early. If you are head-down at the hospital 16 hours a day and on-call 24/7, you won't be distracted/regretful as you might be in places with more nightlife or excitement. Of course, you also have to consider what sort of lifestyle your wife wants. If you are used to NYC suburbs, the suburbs north of Boston might be a good fit for you. I would recommend living on the far northern ends of the Red or Orange lines if they pass by your workplace. The north end of the Blue line and Revere Beach is also an option. We very much like the area, but it might be too blue-collar for you.
Then again possibly the high-rent areas of Boston are more exciting that we've come to believe. We don't live in South Boston or Back Bay so we can't say if they're much fun on, say, a Tuesday night. They seem quiet when we visit, but who knows? Others can speak to that.
Sponger42 - thank you for this extremely well thought-out reply! I really appreciate your honest opinions.
Most of the things you say I've heard in one way or another from different people's mouths, so it's good to see them reinforced. Again, it sounds like Boston is just difficult enough that while I may rank it fairly high on my list of options, perhaps it won't be in the top 3 or even top 5 (the way this system works, I don't get to "choose" where I end up, I just rank my choices and they rank me - matches up at exactly one institution).
I forgot to mention, also, that part of the training there would require driving to different sites on occasion, sometimes as far as Worcester. That's the reason for needing a car. This sounds pretty hellish to me.
On the other hand, we're sort of taking a gamble with our move no matter what, since we've never lived anywhere else. And I wouldn't say were exactly "happy" where we are now, just happy with the amount of space and freedom we have (it's basically a rental that we can treat as if we own the place). Otherwise, we're bored, and want something slightly more upbeat... If that makes sense.
Excuse the stream of consciousness, I'm trying to work this all out in my head. I wonder if Boston wouldn't be a better place to check out when we have more of a budget and could live in the suburbs and not worry about the commute as much. We could accomplish this in 3-5 years time no matter where we end up in the near future.
In my opinon, driving IN Boston and nearby communities is awfully annoying because of the way the streets converge into squares (try driving through Somerville without hitting at least 3 of these traffic-snarlers. It's literally impossible; google it!). I don't have an opinion on driving outside of the I-95 ring, because I do it so rarely. From my few times in the outskirts, the roads seem to be laid out in a more sensible pattern. MA apparently has a critical shortage of road paint and reflectors, though.
Snow and Ice might be a problem on your commute to Worcester. A colleague who lived there refers to bad weather by saying it's "Worcestering."
Be sure to check back, because there's lots of people who love Boston and they'll certainly point out positives I've missed or overlooked, and dispute each and every negative I brought up. I just got back from a trip somewhere warmer and exciting, so I'm a bit bitter right now, as well.
One big positive about Boston is it is very safe for an American city. It seems like a great place to raise kids. Your plan to move back in a few years might not be a bad one. I would suggest Swampscott or Marblehead as very nice quiet towns to consider, especially if you like ocean activities. (The drawback is that they are isolated from everything by slow winding roads)
Chicago:
We did not live there, but rather in a small town a few hours away. We would drive to the Windy City maybe once every 1.5 months. It is definately larger than Boston, but I can't say what living there would be like in terms of nightlife and entertainment. We would just visit Chinatown, the Loop, and Bucktown. Sometimes we would ride the el, but I don't know if that was more economical than driving. I know it like I know NYC. It gets bitterly cold in winter, brutally hot in summer, and I think it has less snow than Boston. The lake is pretty (but so is the coast north of Boston). The lakefront parks/museums/concert shell are an urban green space without equal in my experience, and the loop is pretty fun even in winter.
Malden, on the Orange Line, might provide some good options for you. For $2500 a month there you could very easily get a rather giant apartment (or buy a single family house!), keep your dog, and the Orange Line will get you reasonably close to Beth Israel and BUMC. Not entirely sure how the walk is from the stations to the hospitals but pretty sure you'd be alright though, especially if you're used to NYC.
As for Malden itself, there are a few good pubs and restaurants in the city center, which is where you'd want to be near anyway for walkability to the train. Nothing too thrilling, but the Orange Line is a lot faster than the Green Line and you can be into some of the downtown hotspots fairly quickly (depending on whether or not you catch a train right away, 20-30 minutes). Parking in Malden is really easy once you register your car there.
It's not thrilling or the prettiest town, but it is convenient, cheap, I guarantee someone will let you have a dog (the place right by the Malden Center T stop, Gateway Apartments or some such, allows pets, but there may be a limit on how big your dog can be), and you can hop right on 93 from there.
It's a safe town generally, though for full disclosure there was just a shooting in broad daylight the other day (on Main St., you're going to want to live in the west end). I have lived there over 5 years and that's certainly very rare, though.
Malden, on the Orange Line, might provide some good options for you. For $2500 a month there you could very easily get a rather giant apartment (or buy a single family house!), keep your dog, and the Orange Line will get you reasonably close to Beth Israel and BUMC. Not entirely sure how the walk is from the stations to the hospitals but pretty sure you'd be alright though, especially if you're used to NYC.
As for Malden itself, there are a few good pubs and restaurants in the city center, which is where you'd want to be near anyway for walkability to the train. Nothing too thrilling, but the Orange Line is a lot faster than the Green Line and you can be into some of the downtown hotspots fairly quickly (depending on whether or not you catch a train right away, 20-30 minutes). Parking in Malden is really easy once you register your car there.
It's not thrilling or the prettiest town, but it is convenient, cheap, I guarantee someone will let you have a dog (the place right by the Malden Center T stop, Gateway Apartments or some such, allows pets, but there may be a limit on how big your dog can be), and you can hop right on 93 from there.
It's a safe town generally, though for full disclosure there was just a shooting in broad daylight the other day (on Main St., you're going to want to live in the west end). I have lived there over 5 years and that's certainly very rare, though.
We want to leave NY and try something different, and so Boston seems like a great option. It's driving distance from home, we have friends in the area and elsewhere in New England, etc.
Hi. I've lived in Boston as a transplant from New York for many years and, if you're looking for an Alpha-tier city, with all that that implies, you won't find it in Boston (or in any other city in North America except maybe LA). If nightlife is important to you, Boston will offer a fair amount of alternatives, but it certainly won't rival New York. Since you are a doctor and live in the suburbs already, I suspect you aren't necessarily looking for that anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by medicalguy30
1. I want a relatively simple day-to-day for my wife and I. I.e., commute 30 minutes or less, without much hassle, is really important.
There are any number of places in Boston proper that would satisfy this need without too much inconvenience. You could look in Roxbury, Jamaica Plain, Roslindale, or West Roxbury and find very high quality rentals in any of those neighborhoods with ample parking. And, since all of the aforementioned neighborhoods are along the Orange Line bike way (excluding West Roxbury), you could easily bike to work, the Back Bay, South End, or Downtown. And, of course, the Orange Line is readily available and runs until 1:00 AM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by medicalguy30
2. We have a big dog, and I'm getting the sense that it's hard to rent in this town with a big dog.
This is a tough one. I haven't rented in a number of years, so I can't say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by medicalguy30
3. We'd like to be in a somewhat walkable area.
All of the neighborhoods I mentioned, excluding Roxbury, have readily available, extensive commercial districts. And, Roxbury (I'm thinking explicitly about Highland Park) is close to Jamaica Plain shopping. Highland Park, BTW, would be a 10 minute commute to work for you, which is why I mention it. It's a beautiful neighborhood, BTW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by medicalguy30
4. We're used to having a lot of space (but obviously could downsize somewhat to be in a more walkable/city area).
Houses in all of those neighborhoods have large apartments available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by medicalguy30
5. We're on a budget... at the moment, I'm thinking $2500-2700/month rent, but that's just a ballpark.
That's easily doable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by medicalguy30
6. I've been told that it can be very difficult, if not impossible, to find a rental in Boston prior to 9/1, and I'd need it by June at the latest.
Don't know, but I doubt it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by medicalguy30
7. We'd definitely need to keep at least 1 car (probably could manage with just the 1).
I don't think parking would be a problem in any of the neighborhoods I've mentioned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by medicalguy30
These concerns are making Boston problematic for me at the moment, and I'm wondering if anyone could let me know realistically how happy my wife and I would be there given the circumstances. We've toured around the city quite a bit, and based on all the data, I THINK if I end up in the Longwood area, we'd live in Brookline or JP (Fenway maybe?), and if I was at BUMC, we'd live in South End (which we especially liked).
I think you'd do fine in any of the neighborhoods I've mentioned. I wouldn't consider the Fenway, mainly for parking reasons. One thing that is never mentioned on these forums (that I've seen) is the distinctly different quality of the Boston metro area north and south of the Charles. In my view, they are very different places. Personally, I don't like Cambridge, Somerville, Medford, et. al., mainly because they feel transient, cramped, and old to me, and the driving - as sponger42 says - is awful. Boston-proper I find much easier to navigate (outside of the central core). But, you'll still have to deal with the ridiculous lack of light timing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by medicalguy30
Residency training is quite challenging as you may know, and other cities we're considering seem to make things easier. Chicago is another big consideration, and I'm noticing that apartments are cheaper there, parking is not a problem, dogs seem more welcomed into apartments, and so on. As such, Boston is seeming like a tough option, and yet I can't stop thinking about it because it would make sense logistically in a lot of ways.
One thing you might want to keep in mind is that Chicago can represent a distinct difference in culture for someone from the East Coast (assuming, of course, that's where you're from). I lived there too and, while I liked it a lot, I couldn't see myself settling there. Like so many other places in the mid west, I found people to be too literal for my tastes (distinctly lacking a sense of irony). Again, it's all in what you're looking for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by medicalguy30
I should mention that Providence is another strong candidate for us, which could be good, but seems like it's so close to Boston it might be annoying not being in boston itself. Any knowledge of that city? Thanks guys!
Lucky you! I grew up outside of Providence, so I can talk about that too ... My advice would be to move on. As I've said before, I'd like to know who Providence has hired for PR, 'cause the way it's represented in the national media (and often on these forums) is in a distinctly rose-colored way. Providence is still, in 2013, a very small, very parochial city. Rhode Island is a very nice state, and I'm forever glad I grew up there. But, the adjustment from Westchester, Dutchess, et. al., to Providence would be big - make no mistake. And, Providence is an ever more decaying city outside of the central core and East Side.
I'd like to put in a good word for Providence. As a medical resident, I think it would be a very good choice for you. Your budget would get you a top of the line loft style (if you like) apartment with all amenities. If not that, you could rent a house (better for the dog) and still be within a short commute. Locating downtown or on the east side would put you within a 10-15 commute of most major hospitals.
Because it is smaller, it is much less hassle and much more convenient. "Parochial" is in the eye of the beholder. Depends on who you associate with.
Providence has everything you need, including plenty of history, arts and culture, shopping, as well as a plethora of highly rated restaurants. If you feel the need to go to the big city, Boston is T ride or a 50 min car ride away.
To me, Providence is ideally located for beaches, scenery, proximity to NYC and the rest of NE. I could never replicate my present lifestyle in Boston without doubling or tripling our income.
I'm happy to answer any other questions on this topic, been here 30 years.
I would think less in terms of "where do I want to live" and more in terms of "where is the best residency program for me"? Beth Israel is an amazing residency to be in - very prestigious, benefiting from the intellectual and medical genius that is the Longwood Medical area. Longwood has stops on both the D and E branches of the green line. You could live in Newton either close to the T or within driving distance of the Riverside t stop (which has a parking lot). The D line gets a bad rep because it's a long route and slow train, but you're not going all the way into Boston so it wouldn't be as much as a problem. I wouldn't drive into Longwood if I could avoid it, and I'm not sure if they give free parking in their garage to staff. Likely, it is like MGH where there is a waiting list for a parking space. Living in JP might mean you have to walk a little further (to the E line or directly to the hospital) but it's a very dog friendly area. Your budget in either area should be fine for a 2 bedroom.
I also vouch for Malden where you will get more bang for your buck and more dog friendly, but it's a little bit of a longer commute to Beth Israel (orange line to green line). Malden Center has a lot going on and is an easy ride into downtown for all the action on the Common and in the city.
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riving is an option, but try to live so that you drive against the daily traffic flow. 
