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No neighborhood in NYC is more dangerous than Dorchester as a whole, not even Brownsville. let alone the worst parts of Boston:
This is just a myth that people need to stop peddling. It's boston arrogance and a faulty eye test. People who have no ties or knowledge or experience with inner city violence/gabgs shouldn't speak on it because the information is going to be wrong.
But otherwise you make A very good point. I've seen worse neighborhoods than anywhere in Boston with many establishments. That's a baseless argument that only applies to forgone sections of rust belt cities and places in rural areas. Absolutely anywhere in Noston could support a bar/resatraunt.
Its not Boston arrogance, flip it 180 and see it the other side. If anyone even tried to say Boston has worse neighborhoods down here in Jersey, you'd just lose all credibility in the appearance to be 'tough' or whatever. Compare Mattapan to Mott Haven, Irvington, South Newark, etc. It's not close. Remotely. New York MSA's worset are WAY worse than Boston MSA worse. But they still have mroe amenities. Youre taking it as 'Bostonians are arrogant and think Boston is safer when it isnt' .. when how people outside New England see it as Bostonians just trying to feel cool that they have 'hood' neighborhoods.
Its not Boston arrogance. If anyone even tried to say Boston has worse neighborhoods down here in Jersey, you'd just lose all credibility in the appearance to be 'tough' or whatever. Compare Mattapan to Mott Haven, Irvington, South Newark, etc. It's not close. Remotely. New York MSA's worset are WAY worse than Boston MSA worse. But they still have mroe amenities. Youre taking it as 'Bostonians are arrogant and think Boston is safer when it isnt' .. when how people outside New England see it as Bostonians just trying to feel cool that they have 'hood' neighborhoods.
So what what people in jersey say? They would be wrong and they don't even live in NYC...
You're now comparing MSAs which I silly because that a 100% different thing. Then you'd be correct. Comparing cities your objectively wrong accept it and just now along. Why is that controversial or “acting cool”
I'd wager you know literally nothing of substance about Boston street life so just be quiet about it.
Again you're from Randolph and you live in suburban New Jersey, did,e relax. You're chatting about stuff you don't know bout and telling me what other people form NJ who have been to Boston would say about neighborhoods they don't know exist in comparison to NYC (a city they don't live in).
Irvington is no way worse than Mattapan. Neither is Mott Haven-objectively. Irvington is virtually interchangeable with most of Dorchester. Melrose and Mott Haven share a precinct and contain 76,000 people. Last year they had 13 homicides.
Irivington has had single digit homicide since 2016 and 85,009 people...cmon bro. Stop the nonsense. Per city data irvigton overall crime rate is equivalent to revere or Everett in 2011.
Bad areas in Newark are much worse than anything in Boston-thats not NYC. At all. That's Newark
So what what people in jersey say? They would be wrong and they don't even live in NYC...
You're now comparing MSAs which I silly because that a 100% different thing. Then you'd be correct. Comparing cities your objectively wrong accept it and just now along. Why is that controversial or “acting cool”
I'd wager you know literally nothing of substance about Boston street life so just be quiet about it.
Again you're from Randolph and you live in suburban New Jersey, did,e relax. You're chatting about stuff you don't know bout and telling me what other people form NJ who have been to Boston would say about neighborhoods they don't know exist in comparison to NYC (a city they don't live in).
Irvington is no way worse than Mattapan. Neither is Mott Haven-objectively. Irvington is virtually interchangeable with most of Dorchester. Melrose and Mott Haven share a precinct and contain 76,000 people. Last year they had 13 homicides.
Irivington has had single digit homicide since 2016 and 85,009 people...cmon bro. Stop the nonsense. Per city data irvigton overall crime rate is equivalent to revere or Everett in 2011.
Bad areas in Newark are much worse than anything in Boston-thats not NYC. At all. That's Newark
Every statistic I am pulling is showing Irvington, Fordham, Morrisania, Mott Haven and others to be far worse than Dorchester and Mattapan. I haven;t even got to Brooklyn or Queens yet.
Don't shoot the messenger, Im just relaying this back. It doesn't matter where I grew up.. it's just noone really takes Boston that seriously when it comes to this. Especially when statistics show it is a lot safer. Both worst neighborhood wise and MSA wise. CIty wise, Boston is less safe than New York because Boston's worst tracts are contained by it's city limits, whereas in NYC they are not.
Its not Boston arrogance, flip it 180 and see it the other side. If anyone even tried to say Boston has worse neighborhoods down here in Jersey, you'd just lose all credibility in the appearance to be 'tough' or whatever. Compare Mattapan to Mott Haven, Irvington, South Newark, etc. It's not close. Remotely. New York MSA's worset are WAY worse than Boston MSA worse. But they still have mroe amenities. Youre taking it as 'Bostonians are arrogant and think Boston is safer when it isnt' .. when how people outside New England see it as Bostonians just trying to feel cool that they have 'hood' neighborhoods.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by masssachoicetts
Every statistic I am pulling is showing Irvington, Mott Haven and others to be far worse than Dorchester and Mattapan.
Don't shoot the messenger, Im just relaying this back. It doesn't matter where I grew up.. it's just noone really takes Boston that seriously when it comes to this. Especially when statistics show it is a lot safer. Both worst neighborhood wise and MSA wise. CIty wise, Boston is less safe than New York because Boston's worst tracts are contained by it's city limits, whereas in NYC they are not.
What statistics are you pulling up? They contradict the stats I have- mightily...
Southern Dorchester exceeded the neighborhood you had for Newark and for Fordham. You omitted Roxbury. Mattapan had an identical crime rate to Fordham. And mind you you're not liking at the worst parts of mattapan or Dorchester or Roxbury... You're looking at the whole neighborhood
Last year Dorchester had a homicide rate of about 31/per 100k compares to most havens ~16 per 100k
Edit: every single MA neighborhood you posted had a lower livability rank than Mott Haven... So i don't know what you're talking about “childs play”
Why are you conflating Paterson with NYC? Very different things going on.
If you took a neighborhood of Dorchester like bowdoin Geneva or Franklin field and took it and compared it to brownsville or mott haven (for scale) obviously BG/FF is worse...
Even with the city limits thing-I don't think there's a single borough of NYC that had a higher homicide rate than Boston as a whole in 2020....
https://www.universalhub.com/crime/murder/2021 - speaking of Dorchester, have you noticed how the number of restaurants with liquor licenses is inversely related to the number of orange dots? Must be racism!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade
What statistics are you pulling up? They contradict the stats I have- mightily...
Southern Dorchester exceeded the neighborhood you had for Newark and for Fordham. You omitted Roxbury. Mattapan had an identical crime rate to Fordham. And mind you you're not liking at the worst parts of mattapan or Dorchester or Roxbury... You're looking at the whole neighborhood
Last year Dorchester had a homicide rate of about 31/per 100k compares to most havens ~16 per 100k
Edit: every single MA neighborhood you posted had a lower livability rank than Mott Haven... So i don't know what you're talking about “childs play”
Why are you conflating Paterson with NYC? Very different things going on.
If you took a neighborhood of Dorchester like bowdoin Geneva or Franklin field and took it and compared it to brownsville or mott haven (for scale) obviously BG/FF is worse...
Even with the city limits thing-I don't think there's a single borough of NYC that had a higher homicide rate than Boston as a whole in 2020....
One of the thing that keeps the #homicides low in NYC is that there's so much foot traffic, vibrancy, commerce and policing in the hoods. it's only intimidating if you dont like the vibe of older tall buildings and a lot of black/brown people on the street automatically equates to danger.
I see surprisingly clean, vibrant, healthy-looking neighborhoods with dining, ample commerce, abundant transit connections and more. Not to say they're "safe" but yea.... This ain't intimidating to me whatsoever having seen what I saw of Boston neighborhoods as a youth (much less so today). Boston hoods a tnight are more abandoned and the streets are home to pretty much only legit gangbangers. And police are very few and far between.
Still don't get the city limits argument because the city is what the city is...te crime probably happens in the city because of policies put in place you guessed it-by the city. Add to this 80-85% of all violent crim in Bosotn is occurring in just 3 of the 21 neighborhoods. So its not like crime is widespread..
One of the thing that keeps the #homicides low in NYC is that there's so much foot traffic, vibrancy, commerce and policing in the hoods. it's only intimidating if you dont like the vibe of older tall buildings and a lot of black/brown people on the street automatically equates to danger.
I see surprisingly clean, vibrant, healthy-looking neighborhoods with dining, ample commerce, abundant transit connections and more. Not to say they're "safe" but yea.... This ain't intimidating to me whatsoever having seen what I saw of Boston neighborhoods as a youth (much less so today). Boston hoods a tnight are more abandoned and the streets are home to pretty much only legit gangbangers. And police are very few and far between.
Still don't get the city limits argument because the city is what the city is...te crime probably happens in the city because of policies put in place you guessed it-by the city. Add to this 80-85% of all violent crim in Bosotn is occurring in just 3 of the 21 neighborhoods. So its not like crime is widespread..
extremely poor policy. Bad zoning. etc.. Dorchester and Mattapan look like suburbs or borderline urban areas with little street activity in most spots.
NYC can keep their crime rates down because there area million people per square mile on foot.
Its genuinely upsetting when you see those areas, and look at Boston's. Its like the city doesn't/didn't care about their black/brown communities.
Coming full circle, Boston can vote 83% Democrat and people will use that as leverage, but Boston as a city comes across as racist to me when I look at this stuff and physically not wanting them to open up shop.
extremely poor policy. Bad zoning. etc.. Dorchester and Mattapan look like suburbs or borderline urban areas with little street activity in most spots.
NYC can keep their crime rates down because there area million people per square mile on foot.
Its genuinely upsetting when you see those areas, and look at Boston's. Its like the city doesn't/didn't care about their black/brown communities.
Coming full circle, Boston can vote 83% Democrat and people will use that as leverage, but Boston as a city comes across as racist to me when I look at this stuff and physically not wanting them to open up shop.
This is a great point and a very needed conversation.
Yea I mean you just see upbeat young black people with an alternative interest in NYC hoods. That doesn't really get sine in Boston as most young black people out on the street in Boston are just gruffer than NYC. they had the fewer cultural and economic opportunities and they're not as well socially adjusted. Virtually everyone including myself in Boston who is black or latino and from there has been shot at, jumped, had their home broken into, one people shot or something like that. Virtually everyone. Including myself in multiple instances. I had a classmate at RL who was got roughed up and robbed for his phone multiple times in Bromley Heath. His cousin was shot and killed and he was a Nobles student. On reason for my dad moving us off Wood Ave was "so we dont grow up thinking everything that isn't bolted to the ground was up fro grabs" They broke into our home and garage on multiple occasions. And even fliered the neighborhood with gang recruitment posters I'm very serious). Last time I came from Allston on the 66 I happened to run into a friend of mine who told me they just trie dto jump him at Ruggles. I have so any of these stories.
In Boston youre not seeing young black people out in Dorchester dining on the street or walking around with bicycles, and paintbrushes, or a guitar, or whatever. Its just not happening. most anyone out in the street in Dorchester is involved in something nefarious, unfortunately. Again less so than 10 years ago when that really felt like all there was to do...
Menino and Flynn wanted to slow the spread of crime by closing black establishments at the first hint of disorder or an issue. Go to the "Growing up in Roxbury, MA" FB page and you'll see. All the order residents lament the loss of civic and social life in Roxbury and the South End. Places where there were bars, and movie theaters, and the like have long since closed and were trying to claw back to that somehow but RE values won't allow it. IN terms of vibrancy and activity Boston hoods probably bottomed out from 1995-2010.
Many older folks seem to appreciate the more suburban nature of Bosotn and enjoy aging here whereas in NYC they seem to get stressed and head for the hills aka NC/GA/FL.
In Boston, we have playgrounds where kids can't even play pop warner and they've got to merge withoter programs due to all the hyperdermic needles at Clifford park...only in the black neighborhoods though. We have parks that are under gang control at night like Ramsay Park.
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