Income-based parking fines (Boston: construction, excise tax, live in)

[CaseyB]

The only justification I see for different fines is the difference in car sizes. Not how much the owner makes or the model year.

[Robert5]

This is so dystopian. Firstly and most importantly it is unjust to base a penalty on your ability to pay for it. The same logic would result in vastly different jail times for criminal offenses based upon the Defendant's age (younger criminals being given far more time because they can afford it more than older criminals).



From a practical standpoint it has two huge flaws. A. are you really going to means test everyone that gets a parking ticket? ('just take people's word for it', that will work well) B. The primary purpose of Parking fines are to influence behavior, the immediate consequence of poor people paying a reduced fine will be that "poor" people will abuse the system and monopolize valuable parking spots, the long term consequence of poor people paying a reduced fine will be that you will have created more poor people via a perverse incentive to become/remain poor.


A proposal only a Socialist could love.

[jayrandom]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

Basically, why would a guy making 500k pay the same ticket as a guy making 40k? It doesn’t discourage 500k guy he just pays it and doesn’t blink. 40k guy drives illegally because maybe he can’t pay it before accumulating late feeds now we have a flag in his license or a warrant and even more court costs/ illegal driver.

If the impact is deterrent ...then the deterrent should be equal amongst all income levels. This isn’t a new or revolutionary practice.

Why does a guy who scrapes by on $40k/year get parking tickets in the first place? If they have little deterrent effect now, when they are a severe economic burden, what effect will they have when tickets are reduced because of his low income?

And I agree that the city shouldn't be bankrupting people over parking tickets. I think the real problem is when parking (and traffic) enforcement is used for revenue generation. It distorts the incentives. One question I would have (and I don't know the answer), is this: "do higher earners get proportionally more tickets?"

[BostonMike7]

Originally Posted by G-fused

Making people who make more spend more disincentives people from making more.

I'm not going to turn down a job promotion because I might have to pay more on a parking ticket.



It's an interesting proposition, but it might be better applied towards moving violations.

[redplum33]

Originally Posted by Robert5

the immediate consequence of poor people paying a reduced fine will be that "poor" people will abuse the system and monopolize valuable parking spots,

Agree.

Originally Posted by Robert5

the long term consequence of poor people paying a reduced fine will be that you will have created more poor people via a perverse incentive to become/remain poor.

Disagree. I can't imagine anyone letting the cost of parking tickets influence their life like that.

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by jayrandom

Why does a guy who scrapes by on $40k/year get parking tickets in the first place? If they have little deterrent effect now, when they are a severe economic burden, what effect will they have when tickets are reduced because of his low income?

And I agree that the city shouldn't be bankrupting people over parking tickets. I think the real problem is when parking (and traffic) enforcement is used for revenue generation. It distorts the incentives. One question I would have (and I don't know the answer), is this: "do higher earners get proportionally more tickets?"

Didn’t see a sign, lost track of time, d to get in and out of a building urgently. Any number of reasons. He faulted but yea it happens. Basically they want people to actually pay tickets and drive licensed insured and registered. This might make parking tickets less daunting. Seems cumbersome. It I’m not against it. I thinks it’s too safeguard people from what’s coming..

When I was about 19 I once got a parking ticket on Desmond street in Mattapan -right off river street. I went to a friends house and I forget how it happens but I got a ticket for being in the way of street cleaning. Id been going there for years-it never occurred to me they had street sweeping on this tiny dead end residential street, I’d never even noticed a sign. It just so happen i got that ticket at the absolute worse time I literally didn’t have $40 to pay it. Needless to say, I just never paid it.

[redplum33]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

Didn’t see a sign, lost track of time, d to get in and out of a building urgently. Any number of reasons. He faulted but yea it happens. Basically they want people to actually pay tickets and drive licensed insured and registered. This might make parking tickets less daunting. Seems cumbersome. It I’m not against it. I thinks it’s too safeguard people from what’s coming..

When I was about 19 I once got a parking ticket on Desmond street in Mattapan -right off river street. I went to a friends house and I forget how it happens but I got a ticket for being in the way of street cleaning. Id been going there for years-it never occurred to me they had street sweeping on this tiny dead end residential street, I’d never even noticed a sign. It just so happen i got that ticket at the absolute worse time I literally didn’t have $40 to pay it. Needless to say, I just never paid it.

How did you renew your driver's license with an unpaid parking ticket?

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by G-fused

Making people who make more spend more disincentives people from making more.

This is a ridiculous application of this logic. If this passes and you get a ticket for $75 instead of $50, are you really going to not have any incentive to earn more money? Come on.

Originally Posted by Robert5

The immediate consequence of poor people paying a reduced fine will be that "poor" people will abuse the system and monopolize valuable parking spots.

We haven't seen the full details yet, but I highly doubt this will be the case. Someone who is financially burdened by a $50 ticket will not start wracking up $20 tickets because they're no longer $50. The economics of being poor don't work that way. If $50 is a burden, $20 is still a tough pill to swallow.

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

Didn’t see a sign, lost track of time, d to get in and out of a building urgently. Any number of reasons. He faulted but yea it happens. Basically they want people to actually pay tickets and drive licensed insured and registered. This might make parking tickets less daunting. Seems cumbersome. It I’m not against it. I thinks it’s too safeguard people from what’s coming..

Yeah, there are so many nuances to street parking in the city that almost everyone who does it regularly is going to inevitably slip up. Two examples of tickets I got:

• Parked at a meter that allegedly had a temporary "no parking" sign on it (you know - the paper ones they tie/tape to the meter). This was 3pm, there was absolutely no sign there (it was a rainy, windy day). I paid the meter but I got a ticket anyway. Fought it, the city said that they approved the temporary no parking sign and that I could have tampered with it, so I was on the hook.
• Parked at a meter on a street on the edge of West End/Downtown after 8pm (free after 8pm). I got a ticket for being in a neighborhood parking space. I pulled up a parking map of the area and the street I was on was not part of the West End neighborhood restricted parking zone. There was no sign within two blocks of where I was indicating that it was neighborhood parking after 8. I fought the ticket and lost. I appealed in person (literally printed the map and took pictures of the lack of sign) and begrudgingly they accepted.

I'm not sure how they're going to be able to do income based ticketing. I'm not even sure it's the best solution. But I do think the system needs an overhaul. I'd rather see more lenience for individuals (i.e. first offense dropped annually, easier appeals, etc.) and tougher/more expensive enforcement on delivery vehicles, rideshares, etc. Because whether you agree proposal or not, it's clear that hit is harder on those who can least afford it.

[jayrandom]

Originally Posted by redplum33

How did you renew your driver's license with an unpaid parking ticket?

Move out of state.

[jayrandom]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

Didn’t see a sign, lost track of time, d to get in and out of a building urgently. Any number of reasons. He faulted but yea it happens. Basically they want people to actually pay tickets and drive licensed insured and registered. This might make parking tickets less daunting. Seems cumbersome. It I’m not against it. I thinks it’s too safeguard people from what’s coming..

When I was about 19 I once got a parking ticket on Desmond street in Mattapan -right off river street. I went to a friends house and I forget how it happens but I got a ticket for being in the way of street cleaning. Id been going there for years-it never occurred to me they had street sweeping on this tiny dead end residential street, I’d never even noticed a sign. It just so happen i got that ticket at the absolute worse time I literally didn’t have $40 to pay it. Needless to say, I just never paid it.

Writing tickets for stuff that is 100% obvious is, in my opinion, more about revenue generation than any sort of traffic enforcement. I think it's reasonable to tie revenue generation to income, I just think it's unreasonable to make parking (and especially traffic) enforcement a method of revenue generation.