Is it time to just give up on Boston? (Worcester: low income, renting)

[Remy11]

Originally Posted by simplexsimon

I've lived here for over 10 years and have never been to the Big E. Worth the trip?

OP's question can be asked of most major cities in the U.S.

I've actually never made it to the Big E either, but I've always heard great things about it and, yes, it definitely seems worth the trip. The Topsfield Fair has always been our go-to fair since it's so close. It isn't nearly as big as the Big E, but still a great time nonetheless.

[mdovell]

That's the thing there are many people that are stuck in renting in Boston they pay a huge amount for rent but they don't have enough to actually put a down payment on a house anywhere outside of it. At the same point though it's not like work from home ended. The fact of the matter remains is that once you reduce a job to data you can do it anywhere and there's actually no requirements say for a state job that they have to be anywhere in particular. The treasurer of Provincetown lives in Holyoke

https://www.masslive.com/news/2022/0...town-post.html

If local government jobs don't have a physical location anymore then it pretty much means yes you can go to other parts of the state maybe even out of state.

Granted I will give you I know of a few little loopholes. If you work in Boston Housing Authority and doing maintenance though they will give you housing. Technically Philips Academy does pay some teachers to live on campus but it pretty much controls your life.

Highskill high paid jobs are not based on a physical location. Otherwise we wouldn't see programmers working out of other areas. Look at the Exodus at a San Francisco which I would argue is the best city that Boston resembles.

[id77]

Originally Posted by mdovell

That's the thing there are many people that are stuck in renting in Boston they pay a huge amount for rent but they don't have enough to actually put a down payment on a house anywhere outside of it. At the same point though it's not like work from home ended. The fact of the matter remains is that once you reduce a job to data you can do it anywhere and there's actually no requirements say for a state job that they have to be anywhere in particular. The treasurer of Provincetown lives in Holyoke

https://www.masslive.com/news/2022/0...town-post.html

If local government jobs don't have a physical location anymore then it pretty much means yes you can go to other parts of the state maybe even out of state.

Granted I will give you I know of a few little loopholes. If you work in Boston Housing Authority and doing maintenance though they will give you housing. Technically Philips Academy does pay some teachers to live on campus but it pretty much controls your life.

Highskill high paid jobs are not based on a physical location. Otherwise we wouldn't see programmers working out of other areas. Look at the Exodus at a San Francisco which I would argue is the best city that Boston resembles.

Like SF, the Boston area did shed some tech workers during the pandemic but it wasn't to western MA, it was to more far-flung locales featuring lakeside/beachside homes (Idaho blew up during the pandemic) or warmer weather. The Boston area also saw a little bit of influx of tech workers ditching other parts of the nation (and world) for the schools and amenities in eastern MA. This is a huge reason why Boston hasn't seen nearly the dip in housing value that SF did.

Even NYC has since rebounded and then some from the pandemic and rents are at all-time highs there.

The reason Springfield isn't pulling in big chunks of these workers is that it's Springfield. Someone living in a place like SF, NYC, or Boston and looking for a more affordable but similar place is likely not even going to have Springfield on their radar. If you can afford to live in any of those three cities, you can afford to live pretty much anywhere in the US. Springfield's got to compete with Portland, Austin, Nashville, and a hundred other cities that all have more to offer.

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by id77

There's also a lot of tail wagging the dog to consider.

If a company is targeting talent that is attracted to amenities and lifestyle that Boston/Cambridge provide, moving out to Springfield isn't going to draw those employees with them -- it's going to make them leave for a company that's staying put in Boston/Cambridge or go remote and stay in the area that way. This is particularly true of the high-paying, high-skill jobs that the area is known for.

Well, there definitely is a "them that has, gets" thing going on here - I understand that. In an ideal world though, it wouldn't be so frequently self-reinforcing. There have been some biotech firms setting up shop in Worcester I know, so it hasn't been 100% Cambridge and Boston, but it would be better for the area if the good fortune was spread around a little more.

[msRB311]

Originally Posted by OutdoorLover

Well, there definitely is a "them that has, gets" thing going on here - I understand that. In an ideal world though, it wouldn't be so frequently self-reinforcing. There have been some biotech firms setting up shop in Worcester I know, so it hasn't been 100% Cambridge and Boston, but it would be better for the area if the good fortune was spread around a little more.

Right they arent spread out much at all. It's a clusterf*ck, lol.

I do know of one big biopharma place that has headquarters in Rockland MA. Moderna has offices in Norwood, MA. I'm sure there's a few more...but those places are still very close to Boston. I'd like to see more companies not right in Boston and Cambridge. It can't be THAT attractive anymore to be right in Boston/Cambridge with the COL. I think employees would appreciate an office in Braintree, Woburn Hanover rather than have to commute into boston every day and it would be easier to find a place in the 'burbs. MOST people want to move on to the suburbs once they have kids...or some even before that.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by OutdoorLover

Well, there definitely is a "them that has, gets" thing going on here - I understand that. In an ideal world though, it wouldn't be so frequently self-reinforcing. There have been some biotech firms setting up shop in Worcester I know, so it hasn't been 100% Cambridge and Boston, but it would be better for the area if the good fortune was spread around a little more.

Sure, but there are a ton of high skill people who live just to the east of Worcester. The Mass Pike @ I-495 isn't an intellectual wasteland like Springfield. It's been like that for 45+ years. The minicomputer companies were all out there. If you're recruiting white collar people from out of town, there are plenty of places for them to live that pass the sniff test. Every "I'm taking a medical job in Springfield" thread points people at a totally dead 10,000 population Longmeadow with the blue chip schools or a 30 minute commute down from Northampton with a bit of a pulse. It's not like people are lining up to move to Springfield because of the Big E.

[missionhill]

Originally Posted by msRB311

The only people who can live in the city these days are highly paid people or people on section 8.

Overstatement? We all know the neighborhoods full of highly paid people and have a rough idea of the heavy section 8 territory. That still leaves HP, Roslindale, WR, chunks of Dorchester and Mattapan, Allston-Brighton and East Boston, Roxbury and Mission Hill for middle class, working class, students, elders, etc.

[msRB311]

Originally Posted by missionhill

Overstatement? We all know the neighborhoods full of highly paid people and have a rough idea of the heavy section 8 territory. That still leaves HP, Roslindale, WR, chunks of Dorchester and Mattapan, Allston-Brighton and East Boston, Roxbury and Mission Hill for middle class, working class, students, elders, etc.

I know HP and Roslindale pretty well. Roslindale in particular is no longer middle class. Look at housing prices there...anyone buying a house there isn't middle class by most standards.

HP is a mix. Lots of lower middle class renters, generations of families living in one home together, then yes there's section 8 and lots of people you wouldn't want as neighbors in certain parts. In the Fairmount area the homeowners there have been there for decades and the new ones buying and moving in are not middle class. Mattapan is similar but HP has more desirable areas.

There might be middle class people living in Dorchester and WR now, but anyone who has purchased a home there in the last 5 or so years is not middle class. WR has been quite expensive for decades. Lot of physicians live there for the close proximity to Boston. High up court officials.

So no, I dont think what i said was an overstatement.

[missionhill]

Originally Posted by msRB311

I think what the OP is getting at is the costs of city living aren't worth it for some.

The problem I see is that many people get sick of city living but there's not much they can do if they have to keep working. If they have a job where they have to be in the office then they need to be close to the city or they have an awful commute. There are options to work at companies outside of Boston but most are in Boston.

I agree with a good portion of what the OP says. I don't think Boston is worthless by any means. It's a great city but it's not convenient living for everyone. It would be great to have more work places in other parts of the state

I think what OP is getting at is to give up on the whole thing of continued heavy focus on the metro Boston infrastructure and economy. Companies and universities, homeowners, developers, the state itself all have heavy stake in keeping Boston on top in the region. Instead to distribute the economic prizes around the region so that places like Springfield and Stafford Springs get some of the action.

He just used the wrong heading.

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by msRB311

Right they arent spread out much at all. It's a clusterf*ck, lol.

I do know of one big biopharma place that has headquarters in Rockland MA. Moderna has offices in Norwood, MA. I'm sure there's a few more...but those places are still very close to Boston. I'd like to see more companies not right in Boston and Cambridge. It can't be THAT attractive anymore to be right in Boston/Cambridge with the COL. I think employees would appreciate an office in Braintree, Woburn Hanover rather than have to commute into boston every day and it would be easier to find a place in the 'burbs. MOST people want to move on to the suburbs once they have kids...or some even before that.

I have been working in pharma R&D in Cambridge (mostly) for 20+ years now. Certainly some senior management, generally in their 50s at least, live in e.g. Brookline or Boston - they're got the $$$... and some younger junior people too, who don't have the cash, but I think are just really drawn by the city and are willing to spend a large portion of their pay to live in a simple place - usually single and renting. But most of my colleagues, certainly those who own their dwelling, and with families have lived out around Rte 128 and Rte 495 - e.g. Amesbury, Newburyport, Winchester, Concord, Lexington, Wellesley, Natick, etc and braving the commute each day - at least before the pandemic.