Is it time to just give up on Boston? (Worcester: middle-class, apartments)

[msRB311]

Originally Posted by missionhill

I think what OP is getting at is to give up on the whole thing of continued heavy focus on the metro Boston infrastructure and economy. Companies and universities, homeowners, developers, the state itself all have heavy stake in keeping Boston on top in the region. Instead to distribute the economic prizes around the region so that places like Springfield and Stafford Springs get some of the action.

He just used the wrong heading.

I dont think it's a bad idea at all and I've said the same thing for years. Beef up Springfield and Worcester. Give Boston some breathing room. Less chaos on the roads and trains...less lines for everything would be nice.

No one is saying everyone would flock from Boston to Springfield...but I think the folks of springfield would appreciate the economy boost and some Boston folks would probably welcome a place to work that would allow them some cheaper real estate in those areas. As I said some people do get tired of big city living...but can't leave because of their job.

[msRB311]

Originally Posted by OutdoorLover

I have been working in pharma R&D in Cambridge (mostly) for 20+ years now. Certainly some senior management, generally in their 50s at least, live in e.g. Brookline or Boston - they're got the $$$... and some younger junior people too, who don't have the cash, but I think are just really drawn by the city and are willing to spend a large portion of their pay to live in a simple place - usually single and renting. But most of my colleagues, certainly those who own their dwelling, and with families have lived out around Rte 128 and Rte 495 - e.g. Amesbury, Newburyport, Winchester, Concord, Lexington, Wellesley, Natick, etc and braving the commute each day - at least before the pandemic.

I agree with you. I see people get told here all the time oh dont move to south shore, it's an awful commute...but where you do think the folks who live in places like Hingham, Cohasset, Hanover and Duxbury get the money to live there? They're not working in Weymouth and Braintree...they do the commute and have been for decades.

I've definitely noticed a trend of people not wanting ANY commute. It's like omg if it's more than 30 minutes I am not doing it. At the same time not everyone thinks that way. A long commute can be pretty bad...but it's not sustainable for no one to have a commute in the area, lol.

[timberline742]

I don't see state government moving to Worcester or Springfield.

Outside of that, it's up to private businesses to decide where to locate. There are good reasons they don't choose either, generally, if we're talking high paying white collar technical jobs (yes, there are few exceptions, there always are) despite the significant savings on space. Most companies put significant time into doing a cost-benefit analysis when making location decisions.

[OutdoorLover]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

Sure, but there are a ton of high skill people who live just to the east of Worcester. The Mass Pike @ I-495 isn't an intellectual wasteland like Springfield. It's been like that for 45+ years. The minicomputer companies were all out there. If you're recruiting white collar people from out of town, there are plenty of places for them to live that pass the sniff test. Every "I'm taking a medical job in Springfield" thread points people at a totally dead 10,000 population Longmeadow with the blue chip schools or a 30 minute commute down from Northampton with a bit of a pulse. It's not like people are lining up to move to Springfield because of the Big E.

I get it. If you locate in Cambridge or Boston, those towns have some prestige in the industry - which can be helpful not only when recruiting talent but when doing business development activities, plus they are appealing to live in for those with choices - future employees, plus, they already have a significant number of residents who fit the profile, due to local universities, and the fact that so many other similar companies are already located there, etc, etc - I didn't use too many words, but I totally get it.

All I am saying is, "it would be better for the area if the good fortune was spread around a little more." Even if more go to Worcester, that would be an improvement, and maybe the state can provide some support to incentivize *some* employers with good-paying jobs setting up shop in Springfield. If more people are making a little money, home values can increase, and people will take better care of their homes if they're worth something... interesting eateries will open if more people can pay the bill... then the area also begins to look more attractive to other people. A virtuous cycle needs to begin somewhere. I don't fantasize that Springfield can be the next Boston, I am really just saying that any kind of positive momentum would be welcome.

[msRB311]

Agree no one is saying Springfield or Worcester should be the next Boston. Just a little distribution would make things flow better.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by OutdoorLover

and maybe the state can provide some support to incentivize *some* employers with good-paying jobs setting up shop in Springfield.

How much more of this do you want beyond what they do already with the 70 plus low income areas in the Opportunity Zone program?

[mdovell]

Don't get me wrong if you're younger and say your twenties or thirties and you're going to higher ed or you actually have a job in Boston and you like going to sports events I get it that's fun. But eventually things get old. Growing up going into Boston was basically the thing to do for a long time. But now I see plenty of concerts are outside of it and plenty of festivals and the beef franks HDTV replaced a lot of the need to go to games. I could barely even watch an ice hockey game on TV 25 years ago.

I have serious concerns going forward with the mbta. I don't have that much faith in the rail company so the red line and the orange line to me are questionable at best. If the MBTA would have shut down for even longer periods of time more than a month the traffic is just going to get worse and worse.

We have discussions at work now and then about telecommuting. As it stands now we going for 2 days and we work remotely for three which is fine. However that agreement expires in about 5 weeks. Then again it also expired at the end of June it also expired at the end of August. Some of argued that they might factor in commuting time as part of actual time worked. I have a phenomenal co-worker that drives an hour each way if we want to come back to work that's going to take 10 hours out of his workload. If every employer called everybody back to the office the price of gas would probably go right back up again and traffic would increase significantly. There's also no additional return on income or equity for any business owner.

Ask yourself this if the argument for going into an office means face-to-face communication on an immediate basis and that's part of their culture ask yourself where the actual leadership of that organization lives. If they live in the suburbs it's going to be much harder for them to get people to go into an urban area again.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by mdovell

Don't get me wrong if you're younger and say your twenties or thirties and you're going to higher ed or you actually have a job in Boston and you like going to sports events I get it that's fun. But eventually things get old.

Maybe for you. I'm 50, and still travelling over an hour to Boston at least once a week for events. My peers that I know living in the area (Somerville, Boston, etc) in their late 40s through 60s are going to multiple events weekly, week after week. It's not your thing, fine.

[msRB311]

That's the point. It's not a lot of people's thing but they are forced to live near Boston because of their jobs. If you're happy with it good for you.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by msRB311

That's the point. It's not a lot of people's thing but they are forced to live near Boston because of their jobs. If you're happy with it good for you.

They're not forced to, they want to. If you're one of the people in the biotech, tech, high end finance, high end higher ed, and you can get a job in Boston, you can get jobs in other cities/regions pretty easily.

You just have to accept there may be a big pay cut, and quite possibly career limitations. Same for the young up and comers. If they're part of the modern economy which has been booming in Boston, they're moving there because they want to, not because they have to.

So make the choice. Maybe temper career goals. Probably take less money. Or CHOOSE to live in Boston, NY, SF, etc.