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I've never heard that before ever. Denver is nicknamed the "mile high city" of course, but I've never heard mile high state.
Just like how some people consider Colorado a western state and some people consider it mid-west; some people living in Colorado consider themselves on the west cost or a western state and the others consider themselves to live in the mid-west. I've never heard Colorado considered a west state (in the same category as Washington and California) until a couple of years ago when someone said "you're in the midwest? So you live in Michigan or something?"
We all call it different names but it's still the same thing.
OT: most of those "hood scoops" on Subaru's were a cosmetic styling feature that lead to nowhere, as in there's no turbo under the hood. In fact, Subie got a lot of adverse comments in the motoring press about them being an unnecessary item because they were only cosmetic. It's also easier to broom off the hood in the winter on a smooth hood than the ones with the hood scoop ... like my 1997 OBW.
And that was quite some time ago in the automotive industry. Subaru had functional hood scoops starting in early 2004. Not sure about anything before that as I don't look that far back. 1997 was 14 years ago. Some of them were cosmetic and some of those cosmetic changes are aftermarket changes which are called ricers in the automotive community.
Regardless, saying it lead to nowhere is like saying words mean nothing. Subaru has a rally racing heritage for a reason.
And that was quite some time ago in the automotive industry. Subaru had functional hood scoops starting in early 2004. Not sure about anything before that as I don't look that far back. 1997 was 14 years ago. Some of them were cosmetic and some of those cosmetic changes are aftermarket changes which are called ricers in the automotive community.
Regardless, saying it lead to nowhere is like saying words mean nothing. Subaru has a rally racing heritage for a reason.
But that's exactly what the fake hood scoops were ... they didn't open up into the engine compartment, they were sealed decorative portions of the hood panel ... no more, no less.
Subaru has a rally racing heritage, as do many other car brands. Everybody from Audi to Lancia to Saab has had a competitive car through the years ... the commonality is that few of the rally cars that made the reputation are the cars that folks drive on the street. Much the same as road racing, unless a car is homologated for certain classes, the cars or the engines that wind up in competition don't have much in common with what is sold to the public ... and those factory built competition cars are few and far between at a price point beyond what you'd want to use as an everyday driver.
The percentage of the Subaru fleet of cars, be it today's brand new ones or the fleet that's on the road today which comprises a lot of cars that are 14 years old is miniscule when you're talking turbo'ed cars. The turbo's were in the top of the line performance cars, like WRX's ... and those sell primarily to an enthusiast group looking for that performance. The average buyer in a Subie showroom is looking for something else and not willing to spend the dough it takes to buy the top performance car which doesn not fulfill their intended use of reliable all-weather transportaton. All you have to do to see this on the street is to look at the sales demographics of the marque ... New England, Rocky Mountain states, and the Pacific Northwest. Subie sales in other locales without a winter climate are pretty slim ....
But that's exactly what the fake hood scoops were ... they didn't open up into the engine compartment, they were sealed decorative portions of the hood panel ... no more, no less.
Subaru has a rally racing heritage, as do many other car brands. Everybody from Audi to Lancia to Saab has had a competitive car through the years ... the commonality is that few of the rally cars that made the reputation are the cars that folks drive on the street. Much the same as road racing, unless a car is homologated for certain classes, the cars or the engines that wind up in competition don't have much in common with what is sold to the public ... and those factory built competition cars are few and far between at a price point beyond what you'd want to use as an everyday driver.
Yeah, just like how most of the racecars at tracks are rarely the same ones on the street. But that wasn't my point at all. I was implying Subaru has rally heritage because of it's AWD. Just because they didn't open up to the engine doesn't necessarily mean they didn't "lead to nowhere."
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit
The percentage of the Subaru fleet of cars, be it today's brand new ones or the fleet that's on the road today which comprises a lot of cars that are 14 years old is miniscule when you're talking turbo'ed cars. The turbo's were in the top of the line performance cars, like WRX's ... and those sell primarily to an enthusiast group looking for that performance. The average buyer in a Subie showroom is looking for something else and not willing to spend the dough it takes to buy the top performance car which doesn not fulfill their intended use of reliable all-weather transportaton. All you have to do to see this on the street is to look at the sales demographics of the marque ... New England, Rocky Mountain states, and the Pacific Northwest. Subie sales in other locales without a winter climate are pretty slim ....
And what of it? Just because turbocharged Subaru's are mostly only sold to enthusiasts or those with the money doesn't make the concept of a turbocharger any less beneficial in relation to the original poster's question.
Yeah, just like how most of the racecars at tracks are rarely the same ones on the street. But that wasn't my point at all. I was implying Subaru has rally heritage because of it's AWD. Just because they didn't open up to the engine doesn't necessarily mean they didn't "lead to nowhere."
Look, I've worked on enough of these cars and owned them to know that the hood scoop isn't anything more than a decorative item formed into the sheet metal of the hood. They never penetrated the skin of the hood, they simply sat on top of the exterior skin. If that isn't "leading to nowhere" for the airflow that a scoop opening implies, I don't know what would be.
And what of it? Just because turbocharged Subaru's are mostly only sold to enthusiasts or those with the money doesn't make the concept of a turbocharger any less beneficial in relation to the original poster's question.
And here I'll strongly disagree with you where the OP may be considering a daily driver car in the Colorado area that is capable of driving into the mountains. I'll take a naturally aspirated 165 HP OBW any day in inclement weather driving conditions and normal traffic (especially the congested traffic flow on ski weekends) over a turbo'ed Subie which requires much more judicious use of the throttle to drive safely. I had one turbo'ed XT which was a bear to drive on dry pavement ... it was obnoxious and easy to break loose on an icy road ... which is really the main issue of Colorado mountain driving, not deep snow. I saw the same problems in driving in those conditions with folks in early turbo'ed Volvos, too. Turbo power may be great to play with on public roads, but for the average driver on inclement road conditions, it's not such a benefit. Typically, too ... the turbo'ed cars get significantly lower fuel economy than their naturally aspirated stablemates.
Even when you look at the sub 2 liter 4 cylinder motors of current production, they don't get the fuel economy of the larger naturally aspirated stablemates. When you're dealing with same displacement motors, and one is NA and the other is turbo'ed ... the turbo model gets a lot less fuel economy. Speed costs money! How fast do you want to go?
I couldn't find any old threads on this, but generally I've made it a rule never to buy a vehicle with a 4 cyl engine, since the only ones I've experienced labored to get up mountains in altitude. But I've seen a lot of AWD Subaru and CR-Vs with 4s, so I thought I'd ask here.
Drove 4 cyl. toy for 15 years in CO,lived in Conifer,had property in Fairplay and drove to Vegas on I 70,no problem with 5 speed.I now have 99 Tacoma SR5 Auto/ODand go anywhere with it.
And here I'll strongly disagree with you where the OP may be considering a daily driver car in the Colorado area that is capable of driving into the mountains. I'll take a naturally aspirated 165 HP OBW any day in inclement weather driving conditions and normal traffic (especially the congested traffic flow on ski weekends) over a turbo'ed Subie which requires much more judicious use of the throttle to drive safely. I had one turbo'ed XT which was a bear to drive on dry pavement ... it was obnoxious and easy to break loose on an icy road ... which is really the main issue of Colorado mountain driving, not deep snow. I saw the same problems in driving in those conditions with folks in early turbo'ed Volvos, too. Turbo power may be great to play with on public roads, but for the average driver on inclement road conditions, it's not such a benefit. Typically, too ... the turbo'ed cars get significantly lower fuel economy than their naturally aspirated stablemates.
Even when you look at the sub 2 liter 4 cylinder motors of current production, they don't get the fuel economy of the larger naturally aspirated stablemates. When you're dealing with same displacement motors, and one is NA and the other is turbo'ed ... the turbo model gets a lot less fuel economy. Speed costs money! How fast do you want to go?
Power delivery from a turbo varies greatly between each vehicle let alone each manufacturer. That alone narrows your statement. Driving one doesn't mean you drove them all. And just as you can say you didn't say that, I will say I never said a naturally aspirated engine is no choice for driving in the mountains if you read what I wrote.
Just because you didn't know how to drive a turbocharged Subaru doesn't mean other people can't as is obvious with the enthusiast community. Otherwise the enthusiast community would be a thing of the past if that were the case, not a thing of the present.
And since you seem so intent on proving your point with additional topics to bring up: The main reason why people get less fuel economy in turbocharged vehicles is because they use the turbo. Just like if there's power there to be use, whether in a car or as the power to rule, it will be used. Opportunities do not always go unfulfilled.
As a side note, Volvo's aren't meant to go off the pavement with their AWD system unlike Subaru's. Volvo'ss definitely can, turbocharged or not, but it doesn't mean they were meant to unlike Subaru's. It should be noted Volvo's AWD system is not on par with Subaru in the utilitarian aspect.
(snip)
And since you seem so intent on proving your point with additional topics to bring up: The main reason why people get less fuel economy in turbocharged vehicles is because they use the turbo. Just like if there's power there to be use, whether in a car or as the power to rule, it will be used. Opportunities do not always go unfulfilled.
As a side note, Volvo's aren't meant to go off the pavement with their AWD system unlike Subaru's. Volvo'ss definitely can, turbocharged or not, but it doesn't mean they were meant to unlike Subaru's. It should be noted Volvo's AWD system is not on par with Subaru in the utilitarian aspect.
What part of my "speed costs money! How fast do you want to go?" statement do you not understand? Your point is exactly the same as mine ... turbo power gets used to the detriment of the fuel economy.
Turbo Volvo's aren't meant to go off pavement like a Subaru? Who are you kidding? An XC series Volvo is a pretty good contender, at least equal to a Subie in a lot of difficult driving conditions. And a WRX STi is out of it's element off pavement ....
I've been a Subie fan for a long time, and I appreciate their ability to do what they do with a modest displacement 4 cylinder engine ... for a modest price. I drive mine whenever an OBW is appropriate for the chores, but beyond dirt and gravel roads, this is not an off-road vehicle.
What part of my "speed costs money! How fast do you want to go?" statement do you not understand? Your point is exactly the same as mine ... turbo power gets used to the detriment of the fuel economy.
Turbo Volvo's aren't meant to go off pavement like a Subaru? Who are you kidding? An XC series Volvo is a pretty good contender, at least equal to a Subie in a lot of difficult driving conditions. And a WRX STi is out of it's element off pavement ....
I've been a Subie fan for a long time, and I appreciate their ability to do what they do with a modest displacement 4 cylinder engine ... for a modest price. I drive mine whenever an OBW is appropriate for the chores, but beyond dirt and gravel roads, this is not an off-road vehicle.
With enough momentum even a 2WD Honda CR-V could go where that Volvo can. That's fine because the WRX STi isn't even in the same class if you weren't aware. Maybe you should look at the Subaru lineup again for the U.S. and decide which would be a better "contender" than a sports sedan/hatchback.
And no, turbos don't get used to the detriment of the fuel economy. Not every goes into boost just like how not everyone goes WOT every single day in a NA engine or turbocharged for that matter. My point was that just because it's a turbo doesn't mean it gets worse mileage off the bad. Obviously you didn't understand my point since you thought it was the same as yours.
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